Trade War with China

It is still too early to write obituary on ZTE I have no doubt they are exploring their option There are many SOC beside Kirin Media tek offer this new SOC and so do Spreadtrum
The problem is it will take a while to change the design, fabrication , testing and marketing a completely new design. The question is can ZTE wait that long without affecting their financial bottom line . Employee still need to be paid and so do the rent, and other expenses. Sofar they haven lay off anybody.Worst come worst is central gov to lean on Huawei to share the technology

MediaTek Helio P60 SoC With Dedicated AI Unit Launched for Mid-Range Smartphones at MWC 2018

Jagmeet Singh, 26 February 2018
Email at on Monday launched the Helio P60 system-on-chip (SoC) as its new processor for mid-range smartphones. Built using new 12nm FinFET technology, the new processor includes a multi-core AI processing unit (mobile APU) and supports NeuroPilot AI technology alongside ARM Cortex-A73 and Cortex-A53 processing units. Smartphones with the Helio P60 SoC are expected to be available commercially beginning the second quarter this year.

As a successor to the and , the MediaTek Helio P60 SoC is touted to deliver up to 70 percent of CPU performance boost over its predecessors. It is also claimed to be 12 percent more power efficient overall and up to 25 percent more power efficient in highly demanding games compared to the Helio P23. The SoC has four ARM Cortex-A73 cores and four ARM Cortex-53 cores - both clocked at 2GHz speed and are available in an octa-core big.LITTLE configuration. Further, it is fabricated on the TSMC 12nm production process.

MediaTek claims the Helio P60 SoC offers a number of benefits that provide a smarter and faster experience on future mid-range smartphones over what they could get from a previous Helio P series chip. There is NeuroPilot AI technology that has leverages an AI-compute architecture to give sufficient power to support AI developments, such as facial recognition and object recognition. Plus, the SoC includes NeuroPilot SDK that is compatible with Google Android Neural Networks API (Android NNAPI) and supports AI frameworks, including TensorFlow, Caffe, and Caffe 2. MediaTek is additionally in plans to bring Open Neural Network Exchange (ONNX) support to the new SoC. All this is aimed to help developers build new AI experiences for hardware featuring the Helio P60.

Alongside AI-focused tweaks, the Helio P60 includes three image signal processors (ISPs) to increase power efficiency for multiple camera setups. The SoC is acclaimed to use 18 percent less power for dual camera setups compared to the previous Helio P series models. Similarly, there are advancements specific to enable features such as real-time beautification, novel, real-time overlays, augmented reality (AR) and mixed reality (MR) acceleration, real-time video previews, and various photography-centric enhancements. The SoC supports dual rear camera setups with primary image sensors of up to 20-megapixel resolution alongside a 16-megapixel secondary sensor or a single sensor of up to 32-megapixel resolution. There are also developments such as CorePilot 4.0 along with thermal management, user experience monitoring, and Energy Aware Scheduling (EAS) to help enhance the battery life of next-generation mid-range smartphones.

Moreover, MediaTek has added a 4G LTE WorldMode modem, dual 4G VoLTE, and TAS 2.0 smart antenna technology to the Helio P60 to offer global connectivity. There is also support for Bluetooth v4.2, Wi-Fi 802.11ac, and FM radio.

"Packing big core power and performance with a processing unit purpose-built for AI applications, the MediaTek Helio P60 chipset brings consumers flagship features like deep-learning facial detection, object and scene identification, fluid gaming experiences, and smarter camera functions. This new chipset gives everyone access to incredible devices without the premium price tag," said TL Lee, General Manager of MediaTek's Wireless Communication business unit, in a press statement.

The Helio P60 will compete with Qualcomm's that was in May last year. The Snapdragon SoC includes an octa-core Kryo 260 CPU and Adreno 512 GPU.

We spoke about all the big launches of MWC 2018 on

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Spreadtrum
Spreadtrum Communications Inc. is a Shanghai-based fabless chip maker and the world's 17th largest semiconductor company. It is best known for making chipsets for the Chinese TD-SCDMA 3G network, but it also sells chips to customers from other countries. The company was acquired last year by , a Chinese consumer electronics firm.

Back in 2011, Spreadtrum managed to win , mainly from MediaTek, which introduced a weaker chip at the time and, in turn, gave Spreadtrum the opportunity to grow its market share rapidly.

Adshir Is Using Ray Tracing For Better AR Quality

Today, Spreadtrum is known mainly for making chipsets that work on China’s TD-SCDMA 3G network, which covers 50 percent of the customers there. But it's also making chips for other customers in other countries. If you’re looking at the overall Chinese smartphone market, Spreadtrum only has share.

SC6821

While we generally think of companies like MediaTek as offering entry-level hardware, Spreadtrum goes even lower. Earlier this year, we learned that to offer a $25 Firefox OS smartphone, which is way below the retail price of any phone we've tested on Tom’s Hardware.

manqiangrexue said:

OK, I need to understand something. I thought Huawei and ZTC are both SOCs so when ZTC isn't allowed to use Qualcomm Snapdragons anymore, why wouldn't the Chinese government just put ZTC on Kirins? I understand that there is severe criticism of ZTC's behavior including over-reliance on foreign components and sloppy book-keeping (I understand the US got their critical evidence of Iran deals because some moron thought it would be fine to bring all that data to a US trip on his laptop, which was seized by customs) but ZTC is a still a valuable forerunner in the 5G race and is the global number 1 tech company in terms of patent filing by a long shot. And yes, there is competition between Huawei and ZTC but I would think that both being Chinese SOCs, they would pull together when under foreign attack, even if they need to be forced to do so by government order. It doesn't make sense for the government to let ZTC go it alone. So why is ZTC being hit so hard?

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Let me give a try. ZTE (not ZTC) is SOC. Huawei is not. Huawei is in the traditional sense a "collective owned business". Similar to business owned by a village. It is still regarded by CPP as a public owned (socialist economy) but the state usually do not interfere directly (especially in today's atmosphere of rule of law). The state must present monetary or other means of compensation before they demand some sacrifice. After all, CCP has been putting "行政诉讼法" forward, and repeatedly educating government officials to abide written laws which does provide protection to entity like Huawei.

It is not uncommon, actually quite to the contrary, many Chinese companies including SOCs competing abroad with each other in a manner of "blood bleeding", competing to reduce their biding price (therefor hurt the state profit as any loss of them would be state loss). An example was the competing bid of South and North Rail Car companies abroad few years back.

So no, to be honest, Huawei may want to see ZTE die (the evil is speaking) and take up its market share. Only the government want the other way, but forcing Huawei would be something the government choose as the last resort. There are many other means that Government can help ZTE, for example, reserve a market share by decree to ZTE. That means, Huawei, Datang, Ericsson and Nokia will just not get the pie left by ZTE. This would be similar to the TDSCDMA (WCDMA Chinese equivalent) being protected. WCDMA (IEEEP standard) was only allowed to be built after TDSCDMA network had entered service in China.

Are ZTC phones not made to handle Kirins?

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ZTE makes phones based on Qualcomm and TSMC chips. There is no need for Kirin. TSMC is pretty secured.

Does the CCP think it would be a good idea to let ZTC cease global operations for a while and redesign its products around Chinese components?

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No, nobody think it is a good idea. for ZTE to cease global operation. But ZTE has to redesign its products around alternatives, not necessarily Chinese components. It is not up to CCP to decide.

Does the CCP think it's OK to let ZTC go under and let Huawei and other Chinese firms absorb its market share and take its scientists/tech?

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No. CCP will not let ZTE die. Huawei is Chinese but not SoC, a big difference. The government is the share holder of ZTE, but not Huawei's. At worse case, the government may let ZTE to be absorbed by another SoC, Datang, rather than Huawei.

Or are there even more crucial components on top of the chips such that even with Huawei's Kirin, ZTC still cannot continue uninterrupted? If this, then does that mean that Huawei is also vulnerable to US bans? If so, what components? Are there close Chinese substitutes ready?

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There are numerous other components than the phone chip. I have repeated many times in this thread to warn posters not to be distracted by the most visible thing "mobile phone". The reality is that ZTE is NOT big phone player, it never was. Its biggest business is telecom infrastructures.

Huawei is also vulnerable.

The components are FPGA, DSP, Electro-Optical converter, all used in infrastructure equipment, such as base station, backbone router etc.

Once again, there is NO need for every substitutes to be Chinese. American companies are not the only player in the field. There are many in Europe, Japan, SK. While they may still be subjected to US pressure, it is way too difficult for US to strong-arm Europe, Japan and SK just for a nut and bolt. These components are not key tech unlike the strangled sale of Aixtron SE.

But, always remember, no matter what ZTE will be hurt for some time. Securing new deals for component substitutes, redesign the many printed boards, rewrite the SW to fit new APIs, redo all tests of the changes will take a lot of time, I am talking about a year or more. That is a big hurt for a company in this business.

I think that given this episode, the next generation of devices from all major Chinese tech players should be designed with a "US-component-free" label to ensure investors that their money is safe. Can't wait to see ZTE's reopening in a year or 2 with their new embargo-proof lineup of devices. When it happens, the US will know they made it possible.

now I read
Opinion: Shifting from quantity to quality in China's trademark protection

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Last year saw a new record-breaking achievement by Chinese trademarks, with over 5.7 million applications filed, which amounts to over 80 percent of the total increase of worldwide trademark applications in 2017.

This amazing statistic however, does not necessarily show the power of Chinese brands compared to the rest of the world.

In the latest “World’s 500 Most Influential Brands” report issued by the World Brand Lab last year, there were only 37 Chinese brands selected out of 500, and none of them was ranked in the top 30.

There are also other aspects indicating that China still has a lot to do to strengthen the“quality” of its trademark protection, instead of “quantity.”

For example, out of millions of trademarks filed each year, many are not actually put into use. According to official numbers from the China Trademark Office, in recent years, there has been a surprisingly high success rate for launching non-use cancellation action against trademarks that had been registered for three years or more.

Several reasons could account for the “idle assets” or “waste of public resources.”

For example, many applicants file trademarks only with defensive purposes, or with the purpose of selling it later. More controversially, trademark “hijackers” still exist, or those who are taking advantage of the limitations in China's current intellectual property (IP) framework.

By focusing on quality in trademark registration and protection, China needs to breed more brands of better value and on the other hand, continue to improve a more brand-owner friendly legal environment.

In order to achieve this goal, one important measure should be to cultivate and strengthen leading Chinese brands that possess real international influence.

We need more high-profile brands like Huawei, Haier, Alibaba and Lenovo that are welcomed by consumers, not only from developing countries, but also developed ones.

Another measure is to adjust policies and amend the law so as to avoid the focus on the number of trademarks a company has.

China is now launching another revision to the Trademark Law, and clauses are being suggested which could legally require proof of use for obtaining a trademark and/or mandates on maintaining the registration of the trademark every number of years.

Moreover, China has already adopted a series of measures to crack down on bad faith trademark filings and use, including establishing a blacklist of bad faith applicants, expediting the examination of cases involving bad faith, conducting special campaigns against specific types of bad faith filings, and strictly supervising trademark agencies that may be involved in filing or helping filing bad faith marks.

All these measures will help control unnecessary trademark filings without the genuine intention to use, and promote China’s image as a responsible country fighting seriously against bad faith trademark activities.

Besides the government’s efforts, the role of Chinese brand owners in building a nation of trademark quality is critically important as well.

Although the sharp increase of total Chinese trademark filings in recent years obviously have shown the increasingly awareness of trademark protection by Chinese companies, there are still various deficiencies in their efforts especially compared with multi-national corporations.

For example, many Chinese companies lack systematic brand protection strategy and internal management systems and regulations, and many would see trademark registration as a one-time job and an ultimate goal in itself, and will put registration certificates to the company stock without a systematic plan in place for maintenance and enforcement.

This is especially common for Chinese brands going global. According to a research, only less than five percent of Chinese domestic filings (noting now there are over five million domestic filings per year) would also turn to attempt to file for trademarks in other countries.

Even among those seeking foreign registrations, we have seen very few actual enforcement cases where Chinese companies are actively safeguarding their rights in local markets.

Many infringing activities in other countries elude Chinese companies’ radar because of the negligence by the Chinese brand owners, their unsophisticated management, reluctance of troubling themselves in a local dispute, or simply due to a lack of budget.

Many are simply not familiar with the local practice and regulations and thus put their brand assets and activities there at stake.

For instance, some companies do not take serious the legal requirement of real intent to use in the US before obtaining a registration certificate, and thus may face big problems for making false statements. And even after being put into actual use, they do not preserve the necessary use evidence for the purpose of maintenance and enforcement in the country.

As China tries to transform itself from “Made in China” to “Created in China,” from “China Speed” to “China Quality,” and from “China Products” to “China Brands,” this should be closely echoed in the trademark industry.

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Lethe said:

Your example proves my point. The UK is still a very wealthy nation on a per capita basis, as are most European countries, but their power in the international system is limited because they simply aren't big enough. The power of Europe has declined not only because other countries and regions have become wealthier, but because Europe simply isn't home to as much of humanity as it used to be. In 1900, Europe was home to some 25% of the global population, today it is around 10% and continuing to decline. Russia has never been able to challenge the European states for per capita wealth and level of development, but Russia was for several centuries a major player because it was at least in the same league (in the way that other countries with large populations like China and India were not) as the European powers, whilst being so much larger than them. And as Russia's population declines, the relevance of the country on the international stage will slowly decline also.

Even if a long list of developing nations are successful over a period of generations and accumulate per capita wealth similar to that of the United States -- which is a monumental task in itself -- they will still trail the United States significantly because, with a handful of exceptions -- China, India, Nigeria -- they will all be significantly smaller than the United States, which in the medium term will be home to >400m people.

The United States is not going to mismanage its way out of being one of the world's greatest powers in the foreseeable future. It's raw ingredients of wealth and population are too strong for that, to say nothing of the advantages of incumbency (see how hard it is even for China to play catch up, and most countries are not run nearly as well) and America's uniquely favourable strategic geography. If you want to envision a world where the United States is not one of the leading players, your best bet is on civil war and national collapse -- the same dream some Americans have articulated for China (and some Chinese for India), and for the same reasons.

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If your power is "limited" than you are not powerful at all. All empires rise and fall and never to rise again through out history. China is unique because it buckles this historical trend to be back at #1 in the world stage. NO other nation has ever done that before. US "raw ingredients of wealth and population" is NOT enough to be sustainable due to constant degradation of leadership throughout out government and civil leaders.

manqiangrexue said:

I think that given this episode, the next generation of devices from all major Chinese tech players should be designed with a "US-component-free" label to ensure investors that their money is safe. Can't wait to see ZTE's reopening in a year or 2 with their new embargo-proof lineup of devices. When it happens, the US will know they made it possible.

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unless ZTE can find something to substitute those parts otherwise its no good. high quality semiconductor doesn't grow on trees.

s002wjh said:

unless ZTE can find something to substitute those parts otherwise its no good. high quality semiconductor doesn't grow on trees.

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Wouldn't be the first time China turned a ban into an opportunity for domestic growth. The most recent example is the Intel chip ban leading to the creation of domestic chips that power the Sunway Taihulight.

Equation said:

If your power is "limited" than you are not powerful at all.

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All power is limited, relative, and contextual.

All empires rise and fall and never to rise again through out history. China is unique because it buckles this historical trend to be back at #1 in the world stage. NO other nation has ever done that before.

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Why are you talking about China? The question is whether or not the US will remain amongst the world's most powerful nations -- and it will.

US "raw ingredients of wealth and population" is NOT enough to be sustainable due to constant degradation of leadership throughout out government and civil leaders.

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China, India and the EU are the only loci of power that can conceivably compete with, counter-balance or offset American power in the foreseeable future (because they have the population to do so). Beyond that you are looking at inventing nations and powers that don't currently exist, such as an African or South American union.

Consider the enormous transformations that would be required to bring even larger developing nations such as Brazil, Pakistan or Indonesia up to the per capita wealth and development standards of the United State. Then consider that those nations still wouldn't be in the same league as the USA because they simply have far fewer people.

China's potential is so much greater than Japan's because China is home to so many more people. Raw population, leveraged within a cohesive national framework, is one of the most important factors shaping national power. The USA is significantly larger than almost all other nations, and much wealthier than those few that are larger. While the peak of American power has undoubtedly passed and will continue to decline, it will remain one of the world's most powerful nations for the foreseeable future. Poor leadership will not change that.

I don't know men But restricting trade or people does not show a confident nation . If somebody believe they can monopolize standrad of living by building a wall they just need to look at China . Back then it is exactly the chinese policy to wall the country See what happened to China, she decline and rot

It is ironic that China long famous for insular policy now champion free trade and relative free movement of people with her neighbor there are at least half million Vietnamese employ as guest worker in China . China did facilitate easier movement of people to work and trade . The same thing on the northern border Russian, Kazakhstan does not need visa to trade or visit China

China even allow Phillipine domestic helper and english teacher to work legally in China . I guess China now learn the lesson of past and they can have a look at the past eg Tang dynasty was one of the most cosmopolitan dynasty People flock from all over Eurasain continent to China resulting in blooming and prosperous country
Walling trade and people will not result in posperous country to the contrary it will inhibit a country development

Economy of the Silk Road. Trade, shopping & Duty-free towns on China’s new Silk Road

manqiangrexue said:

Wouldn't be the first time China turned a ban into an opportunity for domestic growth. The most recent example is the Intel chip ban leading to the creation of domestic chips that power the Sunway Taihulight.

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Yes china can put resources manpower to develop chips . But that won't help ZTE immediately needs . For high end chips it take years to developing. For someone just started its gonna take longer time and resources. by the time it's done Intel etc already come up with newer chip then it's back to catch up again. The refreshing rate in semiconductors is much faster compare to other fields. This requires constant R&D , late comer need put double triple the efforts to have chance to catch up