Trade War with China

SinoSoldier said:

I have to disagree that tech companies will ditch one SoC for another just to aid China in achieving "independence". The ban only applies to ZTE and hence we will continue to observe a dependency on foreign chips from other companies. I highly doubt that a company is willing to jeopardize the competitiveness of their products just so they could domesticate the chip industry. Additionally, the US ban is in place for only seven years, so unless a Chinese supplier can develop and produce a SoC that is more capable and much less costly than their foreign counterparts within that timespan, it is quite unlikely that it would jumpstart China's homegrown chip industry the same way a complete arms embargo had forced the rise of China's MIC.



The Kirin 970 is faster, but please take a look at the other components of the benchmarks:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The Kirin 970, as compared to the Snapdragon 845 and the Samsung Exynos 9810:
- Has a lower frame generation speed
- Inferior GPU
- Slower max download speed
- Unknown camera support

If Huawei or another Chinese vendor were so successful in producing in-house SoCs, we would've seen them flood the Chinese smartphone market already.

Click to expand...

You are getting in nitty gritty and you only highlight the minus part of Kirin without adding the plus part. There are many reviewer this guy isonly one of them even he conced they are all good Here is the oveall assesment of the 3 Soc
If we take into consideration the Android smartphones market, Samsung Exynos 9810, Qualcomm Snapdragon 845 and Kirin 970 are the best processors ever announced in the past few months. Exynos 9810 will power the upcoming

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

in its European version, Kirin 970 is aboard

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

and

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

and it will also be aboard the Huawei P20,

The difference between 3 are very very minor it come down to preferrence and bias

Huawei just has implemented the Kirin 970 on many of their handset so they are independent of qualcomm now It is still new chip so they have to ramp up the production but it will there soon

SinoSoldier said:

The Kirin 970 is faster, but please take a look at the other components of the benchmarks:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The Kirin 970, as compared to the Snapdragon 845 and the Samsung Exynos 9810:
- Has a lower frame generation speed
- Inferior GPU
- Slower max download speed
- Unknown camera support

If Huawei or another Chinese vendor were so successful in producing in-house SoCs, we would've seen them flood the Chinese smartphone market already.

Click to expand...

In a "size competition", those numbers make differences to buyers. And I admit a noticeable portion (tech geeks) is there. But in reality, all these three are already over-kill for the next 5 years. Take the download and upload speed for example, all of them are CAT 18 rated, that translates to 1.2Gbps downlink. It will probably use up the whole frequency spectrum a base station, allowing nobody else at the same spot.

It is a repeat of "pixel count battle of phone camera and display". It is attractive to the top 10% (or so) buyers, but does not give any noticeable advantage to anyone.

Actually, Huawei is already the No. 1 phone vendor in China with their inhouse Kirin SoC. And it is coming up quick in Europe as well. Just a year ago, most Huawei phones in my host country are brought in by individuals from China, today Huawei has equal number (vs. Samsung) of models in all major telecom operators' dealer shops.

Orthan said:

It seems that china is starting to go after US-made imported cars.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Click to expand...

I don't expect holdups on the Lincolns to last, since they go for the VIP market anyway (rich tycoons, rich government officials, heads of organized crime organizations..) the kind of crowd you don't want to mess with long, especially if the vehicles were pre-ordered.

Huawei smartphone sales surge in Europe while Apple and Samsung declines. Also surging --- Xiaomi.



Trump Administration has forced ZTE to shutdown its global operations.



ZTE won't be missed much in the smartphone scene however, given how other Chinese players, namely, Huawei, Oppo, Vivo and Xiaomi has been surging, even in the Chinese market. Oppo and Vivo falls under the same group, BBK Electronics. Even without a trade war, I felt that ZTE maybe headed as a market casualty in the intense smartphone wars going on in China and Asia, the same status that can be accorded to Lenovo-Motorola.

In the US, Oppo is represented by its OnePlus subsidiary, which is also a separate line of phones.

Tam said:

I don't expect holdups on the Lincolns to last, since they go for the VIP market anyway (rich tycoons, rich government officials, heads of organized crime organizations..) the kind of crowd you don't want to mess with long, especially if the vehicles were pre-ordered.

Click to expand...

The CCP government is the number 1 crowd you don't wanna mess with in China, so if they say you're not getting your Lincoln, you'd better say sorry for ordering the wrong car. There's no tycoon or gangster in China in his right mind who would try to strong-arm the central government, especially not for an ugly POS car not needed in any way for business or pleasure.

Tam said:

I don't expect holdups on the Lincolns to last, since they go for the VIP market anyway (rich tycoons, rich government officials, heads of organized crime organizations..) the kind of crowd you don't want to mess with long, especially if the vehicles were pre-ordered.

Click to expand...

I wouldn’t be so sure about that.

Low level decisions are one thing, but this is not some lowly port official doing a shakedown.

You never step out of line on big decisions made by the central government, and now more than ever, officials have cause to want to avoid drawing unwanted and unfavourable attention on themselves from upon high.

Officials throwing their weight around to get special treatment/exemptions would be exceptionally ill advised these days in China. Similar deal for rich tycoons, who usually don’t want to give the authorities any cause to look into their present and past dealings too closely.

Criminals can maybe do some backdoor deals under the radar, but they of all those listed would be the most desperate to want to avoid drawing unwanted attention.

At most you might see some sort of back channel arm twisting on who gets first dibs on vehicles that do manage to get in, but I would be very surprised to see anyone with the pull and the balls to try to get more vehicles in and/or get them in faster than what Beijing has decided.

now I read
China calls for joint efforts to promote healthy Sino-U.S. trade ties
Xinhua| 2018-05-10 18:48:03

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

China and the United States should strengthen cooperation and properly manage differences, to jointly promote the healthy and stable development of Sino-U.S. economic and trade ties.

Ministry of Commerce (MOC) spokesperson Gao Feng made the remarks at a press conference here Thursday.

Gao expressed expectations that under the guidance of the two heads of state, China and the United States would earnestly continue in-depth communication under the principles of mutual respect and equal consultation.

Gao also expressed hope that the two countries would strengthen practical cooperation and properly manage differences to jointly promote the healthy and steady development of Sino-U.S. economic and trade relations.

The two heads of state have reached important consensus on properly solving bilateral economic and trade issues during a phone conversation on May 8, according to Gao.

The MOC said on Wednesday the Chinese side had accepted an invitation from the United States, agreeing to send a delegation to visit the country at a "proper time" for further economic and trade consultations.

As to possible imposition of additional tariffs on Chinese products announced by the U.S. side, Gao reiterated that China's position on the issue has not changed and will not change.

"China objects to the practices of unilateralism and trade protectionism, and the U.S. should put away its threatening stick," Gao said, adding that "the Chinese side will resolutely defend the interests of the state and its people."

Gao expressed hope that the two sides can make joint efforts to push the steady advancement of Sino-U.S. economic and trade cooperation, to achieve mutual benefits and win-win results, and deliver benefits to the people of the two countries and around the world.

Click to expand...

I really don't know why they keep talking ? if nothing change just to keep appearance of doing something?
China's won't change stance on trade talks with U.S. - China commerce ministry
Reuters 11 hours ago

Chinese and U.S. flags are set up for a signing ceremony during a visit by U.S. Secretary of Transportation Elaine Chao at China's Ministry of Transport in Beijing, China April 27, 2018.

REUTERS/Jason Lee/Files

BEIJING (Reuters) - China's stance in the ongoing bilateral trade negotiations with the United States will not change, China's commerce ministry spokesman said on Thursday, even as a top Beijing official is expected to visit Washington soon for next round of talks.

Commerce ministry spokesman Gao Feng said during a regular briefing U.S. and China are currently in communication to prepare for the next round of discussions. A U.S. trade delegation visited Beijing last week for talks but left without significant progress in efforts to resolve an escalating trade dispute between the world's two largest economies.

China on Wednesday confirmed that Vice Premier Liu He will visit the U.S. to discuss trade at an appropriate time.

(Reporting by Elias Glenn; writing by Se Young Lee; Editing by Sam Holmes)

There is newer chip coming out from HiSillicone(Huawei) It is Kirin 980 should be available this summer
Via Adam Wang
Huawei Kirin 980 Processor More Details: TSMC 7nm with Cambricon AI chip

2018/5/9 08:36


Huawei will launch the Mate 20 mobile phone in the second half of this year, equipped with the latest Kirin 980 chip. Although it is still a long way from the Huawei Mate 20 mobile phone, some interesting information about the Kirin 980 processor has now been exposed.

IT Home reports that the Kirin 980 processor is the successor to the Kirin 970, which was used by Huawei for the Mate 10 mobile phone last year and the Huawei P20 series phone this year. Now the China Taiwan Electronic Times News said that Kirin 980 will still be manufactured by TSMC.

It is reported that the upcoming Kirin 980 chip will also use Cambricon (寒武纪 In Chinese) processor IP, Cambrian recently launched the 1M series chip is the company's new generation of TSMC 7nm process technology AI chip, according to rumor, previously Samsung is considered to be the founder of these 7nm chips.

The chips based on the 7nm process will be ready in the second half of 2018. Huawei will use the Kirin 980 in the Mate 20 flagship mobile phone. Industry news said that Kirin 980 chip has begun mass production this quarter.


In addition to upgrading the 7nm process, the Kirin 980 processor will also integrate a new generation of the Cambrian AI core, which is 10 times more powerful than previous generations.

In September last year, Huawei released the Kirin 970 processor and integrated an independent NPU (Neural Network Unit). Later, it was pointed out by the industry that it was the core of the customized Cambrian 1A.

The official said this NPU uses an innovative design HiAI mobile computing architecture, and its AI performance density is significantly better than the CPU and GPU - the data shows that the Cambrian 1A NPU has a floating point performance of up to 1.92TFLOPS.

Compared to the four Cortex-A73 cores, when Huawei NPUs handle the same AI application tasks, the new heterogeneous computing architecture has about 50 times the energy efficiency and 25 times the performance advantage, and the image recognition speed can reach 2000 sheets per minute.



However, compared to the iPhone X's "neural engine can perform 600 billion operations per second", it is still in the case of being suspended. Therefore, Kirin980 may use the 1M AI core of the Cambrian third-generation product to greatly enhance AI performance.

According to previous news, the Cambrian 1M is expected to use the TSMC 7nm process, and the 8-bit computing (FP8) operation energy efficiency can reach 5 Tops/W (5 trillion times per watt), and the performance can be more than 10 times that of the previous generation.

The Cambrian company will also provide 2T/4T/8T (8 Thread, up to 8 threads should be server-oriented) with three different specifications of the NPU core, but it is unclear which scheme the Huawei Unicorn 980 will use.

According to Huawei's product launch strategy, Kirin980 should be released in the second half of 2018, first for Mate 11 series phones, and later for glory V20 (the previous generation was V10) models.

Hendrik_2000 said:

There is newer chip coming out from HiSillicone(Huawei) It is Kirin 980 should be available this summer
Via Adam Wang

Click to expand...

OK, I need to understand something. I thought Huawei and ZTC are both SOCs so when ZTC isn't allowed to use Qualcomm Snapdragons anymore, why wouldn't the Chinese government just put ZTC on Kirins? I understand that there is severe criticism of ZTC's behavior including over-reliance on foreign components and sloppy book-keeping (I understand the US got their critical evidence of Iran deals because some moron thought it would be fine to bring all that data to a US trip on his laptop, which was seized by customs) but ZTC is a still a valuable forerunner in the 5G race and is the global number 1 tech company in terms of patent filing by a long shot. And yes, there is competition between Huawei and ZTC but I would think that both being Chinese SOCs, they would pull together when under foreign attack, even if they need to be forced to do so by government order. It doesn't make sense for the government to let ZTC go it alone. So why is ZTC being hit so hard?

Are ZTC phones not made to handle Kirins?

Does the CCP think it would be a good idea to let ZTC cease global operations for a while and redesign its products around Chinese components?

Does the CCP think it's OK to let ZTC go under and let Huawei and other Chinese firms absorb its market share and take its scientists/tech?

Or are there even more crucial components on top of the chips such that even with Huawei's Kirin, ZTC still cannot continue uninterrupted? If this, then does that mean that Huawei is also vulnerable to US bans? If so, what components? Are there close Chinese substitutes ready?