If you're intention is to say that somehow Communism the way it is practiced there, makes the population less innovative and removes the drive for innovation, then that can be proven wrong. Take a look at the Chinese science and tech forum. I'm sure a fair mind will give some credit where it is due and please use some empathy. This is a nation of people with parents and grandparents that grew up through civil war, famine, and sub-saharan poverty levels. Do come this far is no small effort. If you want to suggest that these improvements were made by piggybacking on the west, even if it is mostly true, and I would say it is (caveats apply) is that evil or wrong? Did the west not do similarly? Did the west not get christianity from the arabs and jews? Deriving the driving force behind western civilisation and unity from more ancient semitic faiths? What about the 1s and 0s that make up Boolean logic? Did the west not take that from the Indians? How about languages, philosophy, talents, printing, gunpowder, wealth, resource and land. Did the west not also benefit from theft, unfair practice, taking ideas and then building upon those? Does it make Chinese people wrong to imitate the ones doing well? So I don't understand the bitterness. Would you rather Chinese all stay in poverty? Would that sooth your ego better?
Trade War with China
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That's where you are maybe naive. How can you expect a nation to do so well so suddenly? Never in the history of all human civilisations has anyone done the scale of improvement the Chinese have. Yes it was partly thanks to Soviet assistance. And after that, Western investments and assistance. But all of this was made possible by the organisation and application of good policies on the part of the governing forces. To say this is undeserved just makes you against the progress of others which makes you an awesome person. You do realise it is in everyone's interest to control human population growth (like CPC did) and limit pollution (like CPC is doing). Rather than have all humans live in slums contributing to the looming problems we all face. Europe is getting a taste of its medicine by restricting the growth and economic health of north Africa. China wants to connect the world in trade to create obstacles to conflict.
On the topic of innovation, the Japanese completely modeled and copied the west from the fall of the shogunates to post 80s and 90s decline. Even now, Japan still copies a lot from others. You've been misled about the nature of innovation. Chinese had innovation prior to Communists and there are strong signs of resurgence of Chinese innovation after realising how far the gap has become. The century of embarrassment has certainly contributed to this and woken Chinese up from their complacency. In a hundred years or maybe less, we'll see this become even more apparent. BTW it isn't easy to copy others otherwise every single nation and country will be developed and wealthy and competitive. Also copying in itself is another monster to address. It isn't as one dimensional as the trolls will have you believe. Surrendering IP does not create the machinery to get the jobs done overnight. Much effort was put there so technology can be learned and absorbed. Only a modest and realistic nation of people are capable of this step. You don't see India doing it for example and what do they have to show in terms of any industry or technology where China doesn't lead or surpass them in? I'd rather be doing the temporary imitating rather than living in perpetual economic turmoil.
I make a point to include the governing forces ie Communists because I feel like this is your true target and object of contention.
solarz
Brigadier
Guess what, the rest of the world piggy-backed on Chinese innovation for a thousand years. Paper, compass, and gun powder ring any bells?
Every civilization experiences ebb and flow. Chinese history is a cycle of order and chaos, repeatedly going from dark ages of war and strife to golden ages of civilization and culture. The United States is like a teenager, exhuberant in its current vitality and believing it knows *everything*, unable to comprehend anything that goes beyond its 200-year history.
The 20th century was China's latest dark age, and the 21st century is seeing China's renewal into a beacon of civilization and progress. You can wail and weep and gnash your teeth, or you can realize that all human progress is built on achievements by other human beings, that we're all on this boat called Earth together, and that in this age of globalization, the world is smaller than ever.
BTW it should be added that group think is not a culprit of supposed Chinese inability to innovate because they are shackled by Communism. If the allegation is true, it is more accurately described as nepotism and corruption as a direct consequence of having the CPC in power, that is responsible for the supposed inability to create etc etc. Herd mentality and group think has no more place here than they do in any other system of governance. If anything group think is a disease of modern day western democracy where lobbyists hold the real power behind the politicians. We know nepotism and corruption has been and most likely still plagues modern PRC... from leadership to corporate management and everything around. This is not unique to Chinese style "Communism" though. If the metrics can be believed and there's no reason why they shouldnt be, Chinese are becoming quite competitive in many industries. How could this be possible if they are plagued by these problems which others are not? e.g. Supercomputers. There's no copying here. If there is, please show concrete proof and evidence. I don't think Chinese space agency copied US lunar rover in the Jade Rabbit? No if one is fair and does actual research, the design is heavily based on proven Russian rover. However it is not a direct copy just because the wheels have a resemblance... pretty much all other components are different and serve different purposes. Otherwise it's fair to say many things are direct copies of others despite being different in many ways. I feel like I'm wasting my time on a lost cause as I type this hahaha 
Because Chinese "garage" and "basement" style factories that pump out fake branded goods etc and car designs ... list goes on, it doesn't mean the entire nation is only capable of this and has only ever done this. I know it's easy to think this way, but really it's just not true and there's so much evidence out there even on western sites if one wants to find the truth. The main reason some Chinese manufacturers do this is because there is a market for people who just want to buy something that looks like something much more expensive but they are unable to afford it. The demand created these industries and the government turns a blind eye because it still contributes to growth, although slight. But this was also true at one stage for the Germans and Swiss. Not to mention the obvious ones like Japan and South Korea. Of course they weren't and aren't commies so they're not a threat because only commies cause violence. That's a universal fact all decent humans know.
Because Chinese "garage" and "basement" style factories that pump out fake branded goods etc and car designs ... list goes on, it doesn't mean the entire nation is only capable of this and has only ever done this. I know it's easy to think this way, but really it's just not true and there's so much evidence out there even on western sites if one wants to find the truth. The main reason some Chinese manufacturers do this is because there is a market for people who just want to buy something that looks like something much more expensive but they are unable to afford it. The demand created these industries and the government turns a blind eye because it still contributes to growth, although slight. But this was also true at one stage for the Germans and Swiss. Not to mention the obvious ones like Japan and South Korea. Of course they weren't and aren't commies so they're not a threat because only commies cause violence. That's a universal fact all decent humans know.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
No, we've already been through this idiocy. The summary goes as following:
You: Chinese can never innovate.
Me: The top 2 technological patent designers are Chinese companies: Huawei and ZTE; the US comes in 3rd. International and domestic patents added together, China's count more than doubles (maybe even triples) the US count. China has the world's fastest and second-fastest supercomputers, the only quantum satellite, and the most advanced quantum communications technology. How do you copy something that doesn't exist or copy and have it end up better than the original?
You: Uh... Patents don't count because Chinese just file patents for the number, not for important technology.
Everyone: Where is your evidence/source/citation for that?
You: Fact is stranger than fiction.
Everyone: That doesn't mean anything. Where is your evidence?
You: You guys are all trolls and you hate me because I'm right and the mods are going rogue against me because it's all censored here. Wah Wah
Then you bring up the same stupid regurgitation of outdated Western slander as an argument again? It shows that you're wrong, but you want your view to be right so much that you are forced to ignore all evidence.
You have a fantastical imagination... unfortunately, that's not good for linking things by logic.... The fact that everyone bashes you, but with plenty to say doesn't mean you're right; it means everyone thinks you're out of your mind, because you actually are. Want evidence? Go to a national paleontology meeting and shout "Dinosaurs aren't real! Dragons are real!" and see how security handles you. When you get escorted out with everyone calling you an idiot, do you think it proves that you were so "DEAD ON" that nobody could handle the truth? LOL
Well this is coming from the nation with the greatest population of flat earthers after all. Perpetual leaders, innovators, and all time no.1 spot holder material right there. Chinese people have been benign in bringing up the double standards, fallacious reasoning, flawed arguments, and certainly have not been actively anti-American in propaganda efforts either. Thankfully the Russians are doing some of the lifting there and letting the world see the other face of the coin. Of course anything that doesn't fit their narrative is called troll, bot, wumao, etc. How convenient and irresponsible
Jura The idiot
General
would they (= soybean farmers) get reimbursed in the meantime (= while unable to sell to China), or it'd be their personal problem?
Wrong goto Silicon Valley or any top academic research Institute or STEM grad school in US. Check how many are from Asia particularly china. Then check international patent filled rate for the past ten Years. China family are academic driven . almost all top tech company has a lot Chinese in it
He's saying the problem is cultural. Chinese in the US can and often do find success because they aren't suffering from Communism. At least this is how I've interpreted it. He's making a case for the trade war presumably because it threatens American dominance due to Chinese Communists stealing the technologies and know-how without spending the efforts (that's if the people can even innovate at all). All the while eroding American quality of life through the billions allegedly lost from unfair trade practices between the two nations. Chinese piggyback on American inventions and tech. That's the gist of what I think is being expressed. Possibly expressed poorly to an audience that is overwhelmingly pro China. These allegations are only partly true and the relationship is more complex than it is made out to be. e.g. it's not fair to say Germany possesses the best automotive engineers and the credit can only go to German people, all while ignoring the possible fact that 80% of their profits come from foreign sources. These sources being the driving force behind the success. Point is these things are difficult subjects and certainly not as one dimensional as he thinks it is. Especially true when no specific grievances are expressed in detail so of course we go downhill.
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