Trade War with China

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Adopting protectionism means shutting door into China: Chinese state councilor
Xinhua| 2018-03-31 03:15:03
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China is willing to share its development opportunities with other countries, but any protectionist move will mean shutting the door into China, Chinese State Councilor and Foreign Minister Wang Yi said on Friday.

Wang made the remarks at the business summit of the Greater Mekong Subregion (GMS) Economic Cooperation in Hanoi.

This year marks the 40th anniversary of China's reform and opening up, said Wang, adding that China gained its achievements through this policy in the past 40 years, and will continue to aim for higher quality development through the same strategy.

Reform and opening up is China's set policy, which will neither be changed nor be affected by any external factors, Wang said.

China's reform and opening up is in line with the interests of the Chinese people, and will also benefit other countries, he added.

Taking the 40th anniversary of the reform and opening up as an opportunity, China will put emphasis on the development of the Belt and Road Initiative, focus on both "bringing in" and "going global," and make new ground in all-round opening up through links running eastward and westward, across land and over sea, said Wang.

It needs to be pointed out that opening should work both ways, said Wang, adding that China opens itself to other countries and hopes others will be open to China.

Frictions and disputes in international trade are nothing surprising. What's important is to work for win-win solutions through equal consultation in line with laws and rules, said the Chinese state councilor.

Those who choose unilateralism or protectionism, an approach against the trend of the history, will find themselves going nowhere and see their own interests undermined, Wang said.

Taking protectionist measures equals to shutting the door into China, which will harm their own interests; both time and facts will prove it, said Wang.
 
now I read
Analysis: Data tears off US 'national security' camouflage on China tariffs
Updated 2018-03-31 14:34 GMT+8
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When the Trump administration announced new US trade tariffs on China, it stated that the decision was to protect national security and solve intellectual property issues. And is this true? CGTN reporter Wang Guan analyzed the data, showing that the US statement is a complete disguise.

Referring to the "trade war,” the US move can be simply summed up as 232 (Section 232 of the Trade Expansion Act of 1962) and 301(
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), respectively corresponding to the protection of "national security" and the resolution of "intellectual property rights."

The flawed 'national security' argument on steel

According to Wang’s report, based on the statistics from China Customs, the American Iron and Steel Institute and the third-party Lange Steel Research Center, in 2006 China exported 5.4 million tons of steel to the United States, but in 2017 it only had 1.18 million tons, a decrease of 78 percent. One of the reasons is that the US has imposed repeated sanctions against Chinese steel.

Many people feel puzzled. How can so little steel exported to the United States threaten the country's huge, heavenly network of national security systems? Even the US financial media raised objections by saying that national security is a good reason for protection, but not of steel and aluminum.

Wang also compared the different treatment China and Canada received from the US. Today, Canada ranks first in the United States in steel imports and China 11th. However, the 232 report mentioned China a total of 202 times and Canada only 24. As a result, China was handed a 25 percent tariff and Canada was temporarily exempted from this round of sanctions. It is clear to see whether this is a double standard of the United States or whether it used national security as an excuse to engage in protectionism to curb trade in China.

The excuse of 'intellectual property rights'

Regarding the recent 301 investigation, Wang also cited specific facts. The US stated that because China infringes on US intellectual property rights, it will impose sanctions on ten Chinese exports to the United States in the future. It is not hard to find that the ten major areas on the list of specific sanctions given by the US are exactly in line with the ten major areas listed in the “Made in China 2025” plan for China to become a manufacturing power.

This can be echoed by a headline report of the New York Times, which stated that the real consideration of the United States is to curb the upgrading of China's manufacturing industry and slow down the development of the country's industrial prosperity as it moves to achieve its manufacturing goal by 2025. “Administration officials strongly object to the program’s goal of having Chinese companies dominate these advanced industries, particularly in the Chinese market,” the paper said in the report.

Meanwhile, Wang also cited an example of his own personal experience. Last November, he participated in a seminar on “301 survey” by the Center for International and Strategic Issues (CISI), presenting by many hawks toward China who support or participate in the “301 survey,” including senior Senator John Cornyn. At the seminar, Cornyn spoke unambiguously as the voice of the American hawks: The next round of US economic and trade sanctions against China is to slow down or even delay the progress of China’s sophisticated technology and its march to overtake the US by all means, and to ensure American high and new technology is globally leading and its strategic leader position.

From a microscopic point of view, intellectual property is indeed an issue between China and the United States. However, at a macro level, the United States is using intellectual property as an excuse to use tariff measures to suppress China's upgrade to a high-caliber manufacturing powerhouse.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
It seems we have a moderator gone rogue, several of my posts have gone missing. What's wrong, are dissenting opinions not allowed here ?

No. Anyone can claim nonsense as truth and present them arrogantly while silencing the voices of reason. Then drops the mike and claims they've made a splash. If you want to play dirty, Chinese can as well and we'll destroy you on every ground of debate. e.g. Chinese made junk flooding US markets (and world) well then don't buy them. The rules are set up fair on everyone. If you disagree present sound arguments and evidence. You can't. Trade is free and trade is fair even game. Some just outplay others. If you think Americans are holier than others I can present you libraries full of the dirty tricks US has pulled over the century that makes the "Tibet issue" look angelic. Your leaders are some of the most evil members of humanity throughout history. From murdering children in Vietnam, experimenting on black americans, to waging war based on made up pretences. One can go on all day long while China's "evil list" is about a paragraph long.

So your posts were probably deleted because they were filled with made up garbage, accusations, half-truths, exaggerations, and attacks. Our attacks on US are also silenced and cleared up so don't complain it's unfair. You got just treatment. Although your claims do reflect how worried Americans actually are. Please don't support Chinese manufacturing. See how your life turns out. Yes go buy that $1000 German made stove instead. That $200 Italian kettle. Chinese can hurt US economy far more by dumping the dollar and those useless bonds. Once US corporations stop manufacturing in China, they will go bankrupt because no one will be able to buy their "overpriced" American made stuff. Like Shinola. How's that mess going?? Worse than Chinese made (actually still mostly made in China just assembled in Detroit) and still about 10 times the price. Good luck with a trade war.
 
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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
^ Why are responses like this tolerated ?

Like what? Must you blame China and Chinese people for all the misfortunes in your life? If you don't, why do you feel the need to bash others? China is not the cause of every American economic problem. If you would like American manufacturing to make a resurgence in every area of industry, why don't you start a business and do just that without moving overseas? Pay your fellow Americans $20 an hour or whatever and see how well you can compete internationally on a quality and value ratio. Whining and moaning about the situation will only make things worse. Your generation and the piss poor work ethics are partly the reason behind US decline. Certainly not Chinese factory workers outperforming you lot. The last thing I can think of that the US is competitive or dominant in are space tech and software. Leaving military products out, I can't think of any area where US dominates globally. If you want to change that, complaining about unfair trade and shitty chinese products won't really change anything will it? But maybe that's as much as you are actually capable of.
 
There are plenty of posts not unboard with the official PRC narrative. As a matter of fact, several of our moderators like Jeff Head and former moderator BdPopeye hold conservative American values and helped create the guidelines and rules at this forum.
I think you need to look here ASAP
 

hkbc

Junior Member
OpEd piece from CGTN
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It appears that this "war on trade" isn't just targeting one particular country or even just manufacturing and hi tech industries but appears to be more broadly based and 'non-discriminatory' tackling every 'injustice' from the steel industry to second hand clothes peddlars. I guess trickle down economics will ultimately fix the clothing situation since when cheap clothes are no longer 'being forced' upon the American consumer by "foreign actors" they won't be so quick and eager to 'donate' their now expensive cast offs to poor 'needy' African countries.

One thought that springs to mind is, if tariffs are placed on garments will the denizens of San Diego be driving across the border to Mexico for a spot of clothes shopping or just stay home pay more to get less (most likely some one else will do the leg work and they'll be lots of grey importing)? If so will the Mexicans start complaining about trade deficits with China or just welcome the bump in their economy?:)

It is a well-known fact that the US President Donald Trump is fixed on the military. He flew to Paris for the
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just because there was a military parade down the Champs-Elysées. He pressed the Pentagon to organize its own military parade this year, and he wants it to be “big and shiny.” Now he is borrowing a page from the military playbook and applying it to trade.

For a long time after the Cold War ended, the US military has a so-called “two-war strategy” developed by General Colin Powell, then the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under President George Bush. It basically says that the US must have enough ground forces - say soldiers, tanks, ships and airplanes - to dominate two major wars at the same time.

We all know that Trump is now about to
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. Little is reported here in China that he has already waged another war with a continent far away, a place
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The issue concerns American exports of secondhand clothing to several East African countries, including Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda and Rwanda. Washington Post reported two days ago that these countries are in the process of stopping this flow of American condescension for reasons of dignity and fostering of their own domestic garment industry.

The US Secondary Materials and Recycled Textiles Association, which is a trade group representing those trying to make a buck out of American people’s goodwill, is not about to stand by.

So it lobbies the White House to retaliate. It claims in a report to the US Trade Representative (USTR) office that these countries’ actions would be responsible for the loss of 24,000 jobs. “Including used clothing and footwear shipped to Africa via third countries, total sales of 124 million US dollars were at risk,” quoting from the report.

Robert Lighthizer who heads the USTR, would certainly heed to any cries of “America First”, even for charity donations of thrown-aways. After a review, the USTR agreed that the import ban “harms the US used clothing industry and is inconsistent” with rules governing the African Growth and Opportunity Act (AGOA).

That leads to Trump’s announcement to Congress to suspend one of the four countries, Rwanda, from the AGOA program in 60 days. Kenya, Tanzania and Uganda capitulated by committing to drop the import limits.

The AGOA is a program initiated by Bill Clinton to stimulate economic growth in sub-Saharan Africa, and was signed into law in 2010. AGOA provides trade preferences for quota and duty-free entry into the US for certain goods, notably textile and apparels. With the high tariff in place, Trump’s action essentially will shut down Rwanda’s most exports to the US.

Such bullying of a small African country smacks of bullying a small time tenant in the Trump Tower, which Trump must have done a thousand times. But unlike him who just spent a few years in high school in a military academy, the Rwanda leader,
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, is a hardened military man who crawled out from trenches in real battles before coming to power in 1994.

He is credited for ending the infamous Rwandan genocide, which massacred over close to a million Tutsi and politically moderate Hutu over the course of Hutu rule in Rwanda.

Kagame is also credited for market reform and leading Rwanda into a fast economic recovery after coming to power. Rwanda notched up GDP growth of above 8% per year between 2001 and 2017. Last year it was a staggering 10%. The IMF forecasts 7.2% growth in 2018, but with Trump ending Rwanda’s AGOA status, I guess it will bite into maybe one percentage point of the GDP growth this year.

Nevertheless, President Kagame understands that assault on dignity and sovereignty are really things pertaining to ”shitholes”, and he is not about to back off from Trump’s bullying, both verbally and in real actions.
 

Flying_Fortress

New Member
Registered Member
now I read
Analysis: Data tears off US 'national security' camouflage on China tariffs
Updated 2018-03-31 14:34 GMT+8
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I dont see what's wrong with protecting U.S. IP and Technology. That certainly falls under National Security.

So you would prefer that the U.S. just continues to look the other way while China plunders all of its IP and Innovation. Right...
 
I'm a little bit late (dated MARCH 26, 2018) with
The Trade Issue That Most Divides U.S. and China Isn’t Tariffs
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China has struck a hard stance on the issue at the root of the looming trade fight between Beijing and Washington: China’s government-led drive, which Washington describes as breaking international rules, to build the cutting-edge industries of the future.

Chinese officials in recent days have been defending the government’s ambitious plan, known as
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, to create globally competitive players in industries like advanced microchips, driverless cars and robotics. While Beijing has signaled a willingness to compromise on other matters, the intractable standoff over its core industrial policy could prolong a trade fight that has already shaken markets and led to concerns about a full-blown trade war.

“We are three years into the implementation of Made in China 2025, and we will keep going,” Miao Wei, China’s minister of industry and information technology, said on Monday, the last day of a three-day economic policy forum in the Chinese capital.

The Trump administration has
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on imports involving many of the industries being developed under the Made in China 2025 program. Administration officials strongly object to the program’s goal of having Chinese companies dominate these advanced industries, particularly in the Chinese market.

Washington has also protested that companies in the targeted industries have been offered loans at low interest rates by state-controlled Chinese banks. The White House argues that will result in global capacity gluts that could drive down prices and destroy the viability of tech companies in the West, as well as in countries, like Japan and South Korea, that are allied with the United States.

“China has engaged for a very long time in the theft of our intellectual property as well as practices like forced technology transfer,” Peter Navarro, President Trump’s trade adviser, said on CNBC on Monday. “We’re hopeful that China will basically work with us to address some of these practices.”

Mr. Navarro on Monday tried to calm financial markets,
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. He emphasized that “growth and stability” were the aim of Mr. Trump’s policy goal of ensuring that trade with the United States is fair and reciprocal.

Investors’ fears of a trade war seemed to subside some on Monday. The Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index climbed 2.7 percent, the Dow Jones industrial average rose 2.8 percent and the Nasdaq composite jumped 3.3 percent.

Whether an agreement that forestalls a protracted economic conflict can be reached remains unclear. The two nations, whose markets are highly integrated, have engaged in discussions for years with little to show as a result. Talks between the United States and China stalled last summer, and
the Comprehensive Economic Dialogue between two countries has produced little progress.

The Trump administration has largely shunned the highly structured discussions of past administrations, which were used to try to reach agreement on economic and security issues. The White House now views those channels as producing largely hollow promises by the Chinese and has shifted toward engaging directly with senior-level Chinese counterparts.

On Saturday, just two days after the administration announced tariffs on up to $60 billion worth of Chinese imports, Steven Mnuchin, the Treasury secretary, called
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, to congratulate him on his new role of vice premier. The two discussed the trade tensions, including reducing tariffs on American cars and opening up China’s financial services sector to American firms.

“They also discussed the trade deficit between our two countries and committed to continuing the dialogue to find a mutually agreeable way to reduce it,” a Treasury spokeswoman said.

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, Xinhua, characterized the call between Mr. Mnuchin and Mr. Liu as confrontational, with Mr. Liu warning Mr. Mnuchin that America’s trade actions against China were straining economic ties between the countries.

Chinese leaders contend that their country’s economy is still developing. They openly reject Mr. Trump’s call for reciprocity in trade relations. They have instead offered concessions like
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in Chinese financial institutions, and proposed eliminating import tariffs in narrow categories like drugs to treat cancer.

Beijing says that opening up some services sectors would improve the efficiency of the Chinese economy as well as make money for foreign companies. Improving health care, particularly for the aging, has also become a national priority.

But Chinese officials argue that their country is still dangerously reliant on smokestack industries of the past,
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,
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and cheap manufacturing. The average Chinese household lives on a quarter of the income that American and Western European households do, and standards of living remain very low in rural parts of the country, and across central and western China.

Wang Shouwen, China’s vice minister of commerce, and Pascal Lamy, a former director general of the World Trade Organization, squared off at the Beijing forum over precisely that issue.

Mr. Wang insisted that China had made considerable strides in opening up its health, agriculture and shipping sectors to international competition. He noted that the United States and the European Union had higher tariffs than China on some imports of shirts and dairy products. He argued that China meets its W.T.O. obligations; the W.T.O. has long allowed developing countries to have higher tariffs to protect certain industries from international competition.

Mr. Lamy, a longtime critic of protectionism and government intervention, dismissed those arguments. China — which has the world’s second-largest economy, after the United States, and is the world’s largest manufacturer by far, of everything from steel and cement to laptop computers — had made too much progress to be lumped in with poor countries, he said.

“Pretending it is like India, or like Senegal, or like Botswana is pushing the envelope too far,” Mr. Lamy said. He added that China still had to do more to “ensure a level playing field between Chinese producers and foreign producers, whether they produce inside China or outside of China.”

On crucial issues, China and the United States appear to be talking past each other, not even agreeing on what is being debated.

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, for example: China is a major customer for microchips, which are used to power computers, smartphones and an ever-widening array of other electronics. Chips from the United States account for just 4 percent of China’s $260 billion in annual chip imports. While Chinese trade officials have been willing to discuss buying more chips from factories in the United States, that could take market share from Japan and South Korea. Washington has resisted that solution.

American officials say the problem is that China’s national, provincial and municipal governments are working with state-owned banks to rush the construction of factories, particularly to make memory chips.

The new factories often rely on technology that foreign companies have had to transfer as a condition of competing in the Chinese market, according to the United States. Global trade rules ban mandatory technology transfers.

Numerous factories are nearing completion, which will unleash an avalanche of additional output. China contends that it has assisted the sector partly to upgrade its economy and partly because the factories will mainly be supplying its domestic market.

But since factories in China are the world’s main assemblers of electronics, the country’s drive for self-sufficiency in microchips could pose a threat to chip producers in the rest of the world.

For now, China seems to be pinning its hopes on heavy lobbying in Washington by Wall Street, traditionally Beijing’s most reliable ally in bilateral disputes. China’s sovereign wealth fund owns stakes in a variety of American financial institutions. Estimates of Chinese outbound investment over the next decade run as high as $2.5 trillion, a rich source of advisory fees in the United States.

Mr. Wang said on Sunday that China might go beyond its earlier offer to raise caps on foreign ownership in Chinese financial institutions. “It is even possible we will remove those caps altogether” in some categories, he said.

But he also made clear that China would not be intimidated if its offers are not enough to satisfy the Trump administration, which has focused on reviving American manufacturing.

“If China’s interests are impaired,” he said, “we will have to take measures.”
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
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Made in China 2025 is about strategic and important technologies being made in China to avoid dependence on others. In other words hi-tech the US wouldn't sell to China in the first place. So what are they worried about? Obama wanted to file a WTO complaint against China's domestic passenger airliner program before one aircraft was even ordered. The West isn't going to buy it. So what are they worried about? Worried about China stealing technology? The majority of technologies they're worried about don't exist or China is outpacing them. The reasons they give are lies to cover up that the West believes they should be able to control who gets it and make all the money from these technologies. If they don't control technology or the economics of the world, they're not the alpha of the world. Spinning stealing is to get the world to back stopping China from doing what the West is free to do. They have to make it look like a crime when it's not a crime.

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There's a reason why the US doesn't go to the WTO or in fact that no one has gone to the WTO with complaints is because they have to prove it.
 
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