Tired of foreign domination of its telecom market share China...

Re: New J-10 Thread III

challenge said:

US dept of commerce tracking China's high tech import,according to there assessement, 80% Of china high tech. industries has to rely of foreign supplier.

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Why don't you go ahead and tell me which % of the US or Europe high tech industry that does not rely on foreign suppliers and labs as well?

Re: New J-10 Thread III

crobato said:

Why don't you go ahead and tell me which % of the US or Europe high tech industry that does not rely on foreign suppliers and labs as well?

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you actually believe that China is high tech juggernaut like Japan?,let us try to be realistic and honest,Chinese high tech industrial base is weak.if you do not believe me,just open up Chinese make DVD,cell phone or lcd TV.

Re: New J-10 Thread III

challenge said:

you actually believe that China is high tech juggernaut like Japan?,let us try to be realistic and honest,Chinese high tech industrial base is weak.if you do not believe me,just open up Chinese make DVD,cell phone or lcd TV.

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And you're the one who should be ashamed of yourself. Get real and start actually read something. Want to check how much non Japanese components are inside a Nintendo? How many foreign components anytime you opened up a Dell?

Do you want to know how many foreign branded chips like Qualcomm, Broadcomm that are actually made in China?

I find it a deep poetic irony you are reading from a Taiwan defense article that like to talk how ancient the PRC's telecom technology is, when Chinese companies leads the world in routers, in achieving a number of firsts in VOIP (ZTE did over LTE) and has contracts all over the globe. Huawei even has a branch in Taiwan doing contracts there. Now go ahead and tell me whether there is any Japanese, Korean or Taiwanese company that are doing telecom and internet contracts in the PRC, but note Huawei also has contracts and a branch office in Japan.

If you want to know who are the leading DVD chipset makers in the world, its this company who is HQ'ed in Taiwan who happens to have research and manufacturing in China. The others are ALI (Acer Labs Inc.) and Winbond, both HQ'ed in Taiwan with facilities all over China and Taiwan in research and manufacturing. ESS is a US fabless company that makes its chips in China.




For Digital TV, its Altobeam (China), Legend/Lenovo (China), Realtek (Taiwan) and HiMax (Taiwan), C-Media (Taiwan). For wireless there is Spreadtrum (China), Legend Silicon (China) and Techfaith (China).

Re: New J-10 Thread III

crobato said:

And? Somehow the same technologies cannot be adapted towards more extreme temperatures? The production technologies are still the same, you're still dealing with silicon. When you're dealing with temperature variations, then you're dealing with packaging.

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Not easily. Try running your typically PC desktop in a 100C ambient environment. It will simply not run. At high temperature, the leakage current gets the silicon to a positive thermal feedback and eventually gets into thermal run-away. At low-temp, it's more of a packaging issue, but again, it's not as easy to manage as you imagined.

crobato said:

Every system uses chipsets from one place or another. Chipset design houses themselves are not capable of integrating into complete systems. Why do you hear Ericsson or Alcatel use their own chipsets exclusively in their systems and don't use anyone else? Every integrator uses their own chips along with others. Even IBM does that. In China there are also small chipset design houses and component makers like NEDI. All these chipsets no matter where the design house comes from, are manufactured in any of the free play fabs in Taiwan, China or Singapore like SMIC or TSMC. When it comes to the IT industries, there is no such thing as borders. Huawei and ZTE has laboratories and research centers around the world, even in Russia and the US. And so what, Motorola, Alcatel, Qualcomm and everyone else also has research centers in China and around the world, not to mention all the hiring of overseas engineers, e.g. oh please, figure out why Bill Gates and the CEO of Intel made a critical appeal to the US Congress on broadening H-1B2 applications.

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You gave the Chinese companies way too much credit. Qualcomm is still the largest supplier of the wireless and communication chips in the world. Just look up Qualcomm on wikipedia and you see how much it controls the 3G technology.

Re: New J-10 Thread III

Troika said:

And if you take apart a 787, it's made all over the world too.

I am sure you think you have a point somewhere, but it is no immediately clear what it is.

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Yes the toilet might be made in China. Where is the engine made and forged?

Re: New J-10 Thread III

oringo said:

Not easily. Try running your typically PC desktop in a 100C ambient environment. It will simply not run. At high temperature, the leakage current gets the silicon to a positive thermal feedback and eventually gets into thermal run-away. At low-temp, it's more of a packaging issue, but again, it's not as easy to manage as you imagined.

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Sigh. High temperature isn't something you expect the plane's electronics to be encountering unless you're flying somewhere past Mach 2. And with the electronics on the plane's body, its not in the heat sensitive area. Besides, when it comes to temperature, you can control that through air conditioning and ventilation. Aircraft are always equipped with that, especially with radars and then again, for the pilot's own comfort.

So you want to suggest to me that a plane's back end electronics aren't silicon based?

You gave the Chinese companies way too much credit. Qualcomm is still the largest supplier of the wireless and communication chips in the world. Just look up Qualcomm on wikipedia and you see how much it controls the 3G technology.

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And you know that Qualcomm doesn't really develop their own stuff, do you? They buy companies one after another and obtain their patents, then use those patents to squeeze loyalties from companies doing parallel developments of such. That's why Nokia tangled with Qualcomm, the techniques used in CDMA could have been all developed in parallel and independently from each other.

You need to check again why Forbes or Fortune put Huawei with Apple and Google as the tech companies to watch.

Re: New J-10 Thread III

oringo said:

Yes the toilet might be made in China. Where is the engine made and forged?

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Actually sections of the 787 are made in China.

Everyone sues the crap out of each other over 3G, and even today, issues remains. There is so many patents issued by everyone from Nokia to Docomo, and a single handset is an accumulation of all these patents. Its really nothing more than legal warfare using patents as positioning tactics for lawsuits or bargaining. Hence why all the patent applications everyone is doing are all royalty or anti-royalty hedges. This isn't about innovation anymore.

Here even NTT Docomo has its own stake. Docomo has the first implementation of 3G technology in the world using W-CDMA as the air interface.



When cooler heads prevailed, the potential of the W-CDMA market is so such that the contenders agree to put the axe aside and set some common agreements. Among them, the total royalties paid won't amount to 5% of the cost of the device.




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Much of the technology implementation isn't in the chipsets themselves, but the software.



■ Huawei has full command of the core WCDMA technologies

Huawei developed its own WCDMA system and has mastered the core technologies, such as high-performance decoding algorithms (e.g. MAX-LOG and SOVA), access algorithms for a terminal moving at high speed, demodulation algorithms in the case of complicated fast attenuation, smart antenna technology, multi-user detection technology, etc. By the end of 2002, 516 patent applications had been submitted by Huawei in the 3G field. These patents involve key technologies such as voice coding/decoding algorithms, channel estimation, multi-path searching, etc. Huawei has also reached an agreement with Ericsson and Nokia with regard to WCDMA patents.

In addition, Huawei commands the key chip technologies of WCDMA, which demonstrates the technical strength of Huawei in the WCDMA field. Huawei is able to provide an ASIC base band chipset, which covers all procedure relating to 3G base band processing. Its coding/decoding capability is four times greater than that of typical chips. The single chip has over eight million equivalent logic gates and contains approximately 32 million transistors (the Pentium IV contains 22 million transistors).

Re: New J-10 Thread III

crobato said:

Actually sections of the 787 are made in China.

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You are missing the point. Where are the real key components developed and made?

Re: New J-10 Thread III

crobato said:

Sigh. High temperature isn't something you expect the plane's electronics to be encountering unless you're flying somewhere past Mach 2. And with the electronics on the plane's body, its not in the heat sensitive area. Besides, when it comes to temperature, you can control that through air conditioning and ventilation. Aircraft are always equipped with that, especially with radars and then again, for the pilot's own comfort.

So you want to suggest to me that a plane's back end electronics aren't silicon based?

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Sigh you really have no idea how military-grade electronics parts are qualified. The qualification process is completely independent from the design process, and it makes no assumption the designed temperature range. It doesn't matter if the part will only see one end of the extreme. It will get qualified from the very low to the very high, cycled 500 times or more.

crobato said:

And you know that Qualcomm doesn't really develop their own stuff, do you? They buy companies one after another and obtain their patents, then use those patents to squeeze loyalties from companies doing parallel developments of such. That's why Nokia tangled with Qualcomm, the techniques used in CDMA could have been all developed in parallel and independently from each other.

You need to check again why Forbes or Fortune put Huawei with Apple and Google as the tech companies to watch.

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No I don't. Google qualcomm R&D and you'll see they are not an IP shell company. You point your finger at Qualcomm's acquisitions, but these are aquisitions outside of its core CDMA chipset business, e.g. bluetooth, WLAN, even Eudora. True they receive 6b a year from CDMA royalties, but this the exact same business model by ARM and MIPS. If you dislike patents so much, why do you use patent application as an indicator of Huawei's technological "dominance"?