Jura The idiot
General
couldn't your age explain why you
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/members-club-room/crisis-ukraine-78-6939.html#post304620
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Thoughts on Shanghai
- Thread starter solarz
- Start date
couldn't your age explain why you
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solarz
Brigadier
Why would you think a child would not be able to experience oppression? Would I not know it if my parents or grandparents were "oppressed" in any way?
You are probably not familiar with modern Chinese history. Here's a quick summary:
1949 - 1958:
- the PRC is founded, people are finally able to rebuild their lives after over a century of constant warfare; infant mortality rate plummets, average life expectancy and literacy soars
- prognosis: GOOD
1958-1961:
- Great Famine, mass starvations in the countryside, city-folk survive but are constantly plagued by hunger
- prognosis: BAD
1961-1966:
- End of famine, Mao Zedong is sidelined for his mistakes during the Great Leap Forward, Liu Shaoqi and Deng Xiaoping leads economic reforms; people get on with their lives
- prognosis: AVERAGE
1966-1976:
- Cultural Revolution. Mao sweeps back into power, Liu is arrested and dies from harsh treatment, Deng is sidelined. Society grinds to a halt, and high school students are sent to the countryside to work
- prognosis: BAD
1977 onwards:
- Mao dies and the Cultural Revolution ends. Deng Xiaoping returns to power and initiates market reforms. The students sent to the countryside return home to attend university. Many choose or are forced to remain in the countryside, but most are able to go home. This is the generation that would go on to forge the China of the 21st century.
- prognosis: You decide.
Jura The idiot
General
Equation
Lieutenant General
That's probably the methane gas build up somewhere along the pipes as sewage is either backed up or not enough of waste treatment plants for a mega city of that size.
broadsword
Brigadier
1987.......2013!
solarz
Brigadier
1987.......2013!
Thanks for that pic, it's pretty amazing!
1987 Shanghai is actually the Shanghai I am most familiar with and the one I love the most. Alas, it is gone forever now...
wtlh
Junior Member
I think China is a quite complex place with respect to the point you have raised. I am of a similar age to Solarz, though I left China at a older age. But I think my experiences with Solarz has a lot in common.
On paper, China is authoritarian in Western eyes, in the sense of the state censorships, and general tendency to requiring obedience to the state, and adherence to given guidelines for anything of importance that are to be made public. But on the other hand, in terms of everyday life, China can be one of the freest and least authoritarian place amongst the of all the places I have been.
The state and law enforcement actually feels very soft in everyday life, and there are far less rules and regulations on a lot of mundane things compared to most Western countries. For example, people do not expect to get into much trouble if they argue with the police, or even swear at them. People regularly get away with even punching a police officer, as long as the main issues that warranted the police to come were resolved. There are a lot more "common sense" solutions going about, and many regulations are very loosely enforced. There is a tendency for the police not to make a mountain out of a mole-hill.
As a comparison, I was once almost nearly got a criminal record in the UK, for using my wife's ticket. Okay, I did wrong, and honestly thought the tickets were transferrable, but the norm in the UK was that one receives a criminal conviction for it---with all the detriments that associated with it, jobs, international travel etc. In the end, I hired a lawyer that managed to get me an out-of-court settlement with the train company, with a lot of cost. I learned that lesson very well, and had since treaded the regulations like a mine-field, and always have read terms and conditions and small prints carefully every since.
A colleague of mine was threatened with a criminal conviction for not agreeing to pick up a piece of rubbish in a train station in London, because he happened to stand next to it when an inspector walks by. He was given the choice of 80 GBP fine, and pick up the rubbish, or a criminal prosecution. He paid the fine, but was left quite traumatised. He is Italian.
If the same things had happened in China, the person involved would almost certainly have started an argument with the inspector, and even started a fight, and in the end, some sort of compromise may be reached (discount in the fine, or may be a promise of not doing it again and let off). Giving people criminal records for minor infringements in China would have amounted to tyranny in the eyes of the people.
My father in-law was once caught driving without a seat-belt in China, and when the police was about to issue a fine (I think it was 100), he pleaded if it is okay to offer a discount, the police, after much dithering and bargaining, agreed to my in-law's offer of 30...
My parents was the generation that experienced the full force of culture revolution, and my grandparents even suffered during it (my maternal grandfather being an old guerrilla leader---he had a bullet wound on his leg that was shot by the Japanese as they pursued him on one occasion---became a state factory manager in my home town after 1949, and as a result being an official, he got punished severely during the culture revolution, and was sent to a remote farm for several years. His case was rebuked at the end of the culture revolution, and his position and veteran salary reinstated, although he retired soon after due to poor health), but none of them held any grudges against anyone. And my grandparents still trusted the "party" more than anyone else. I think that applied to the majority of the grandparent generation. Both my mum and my dad volunteered to go to the country-side after they graduated from high-school, propaganda effect aside, it was a very "cool" and "proud" thing to do at the time, and that was how they met. They went back to the cities after they passed the university entrance exams in the 70s, and became the so called "worker, farmer and soldier university students".
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solarz
Brigadier
Wow, that's pretty crazy. I can't imagine getting a criminal record over a fricking train ticket!
Over here in Canada, it would be unthinkable that such things would fall under the criminal code.