The World's 4th, 4.5 & 5th Generation Fighters

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Harley-One

Banned Idiot
Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

Deino said:
Come on we should stop that discussion !
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WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF, DEINO :D:D:D?

When was China invited to participate on the PAK-FA ? NEVER ... where's any proof for a 096 or even 097 ?? NONE !
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Man, Deino, you don't expect for me to mine the whole of the www to dig out something that happen some five or more years back just so that you can be kept entertained now do you???

If that's what you expects of me, then doesn't that qualifies as fellow forumite abuse of the most brutal kind? I for one would never put a fellow forumite through such agony if you are into the habit. I mean Golly, that would be worst treatment than the detainees of Guantanamo Bay, wouldn't it? ;););)

Remember the time when Russia was flat broke?

Remember how for a time they were so poor they had to pay their engineers in Sukhoi and MiG with toilet papers instead of cash?

Remember how the Russian Airforce was on the brink of collaps and no new projects was in the drawing board because it was so strap to money?

Well, to survive, they had to sell their Su-27's to even their most hated of arch rival -- China -- to make ends meet now, didn't they???

Not only was China offered a part in the PAK-FA at the time, in fact, Russia was so strapped for cash they practically begged anyone who is interested in it -- Pakistan even I think.

Here's another item Russia tried to con the Chinese into
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but that China didn't fall for because...

[PRC won't invest in an item she deems as something she already have as indigenously-Chinese and of equivalence or better:

2004--2005年，外界盛传中国计划购买俄罗斯图-22M3战略轰炸机。当时轰6设计师周振国和蒋建军接受采访时表示，“相信我们的轰6经过改进后，在作战效能上和俄罗斯图-95和图-22M的水平也差不多了。因此，我们不需要俄罗斯的这两款轰炸机。而且，我们现在已经脱离了仿制的道路，可以进入自主研制的阶段了，我们不能总仿制别人的产品”。这两位设计师所指的可能就是轰6K。他们这么说是因为中国在航电设备方面取得了长足的进步，性能上已经远远超过俄罗斯。采用这些电子设备后，轰6K的全天候作战能力和精确打击方面都超过了俄罗斯的图-22M和图-95轰炸机。]

096 and 097
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Back in 2001 EP-3 incident, it was the 093/094 they were listening snooping around for. Well, Beijing finally gave them a sneak preview in '04/'05 by way of Google earth...

(My speculation is that the Jin is not the 094 but rather merely upgraded versions of the 092. Also, 094 has always been speculated as having 16 tubes while another design 096 suppose have 24 tubes)

... but, what do you think the USS imppecable was fishing for just recently in both the South China Sea and in the East China Sea? Tuna fish?

Only because "The guy who wrote the article spoke in an air of confidence" Does that mean any credibility
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Once again, through sources as these is where Bill Gertz; where the Pentagon; where ONI; and where all US other US intelligence gets their so called intelligence infos. In other words, if the Chinese doesn't want for the Americans to find the 095 and 096, no amount of google earthling and no amount of USS Impeccables are going to pick it up.

Holly crap wqhat are You smoking ???
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:D:D:D Sorry Deino, I'm from a smoke free environment. Therefore, you better not second hand smoke me cos I'll sue the pants of of you if you do. :D:D:D

PS: And YES, I'm a writer !
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Yes. I know, Deino. just like everyone else in the Internet. Difference is: I don't know why, but, your words are less credible than theirs. When they write, they put your head into motion. Know what I mean?

:rofl:
 
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Gollevainen

Gollevainen

Colonel
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

Quit Trolling Harley-one. Stick with the topic which is RUSSIAN 5th Generation fighter. Chinese submarines and other assorted nonsense doesen't belong to it. Next time I visit here and if I see similar conduct taking place, punishments will occur.

Golly
Ghost from the past
 
L

lilzz

Banned Idiot
Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

Exposing those engine intake blades directly are doing harm to the stealth features.

Those intakes are so big and so wide open. lol.

73943155.jpg



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C

challenge

Banned Idiot
Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

correct me, But I do not see any radar blocker in air intake.
if you wanted to see what radar blocker look like, see old picture boeing XF-36.
 
TerraN_EmpirE

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

Military Times said:
Leaders not impressed by new Russian fighter

By Bruce Rolfsen - Staff writer
Posted : Tuesday Mar 23, 2010 20:17:36 EDT

The flying debut of Russia’s answer to the F-22 Raptor isn’t wowing Air Force leaders.

Dubbed the T-50 or PAK-FA, the fifth-generation stealth fighter jet made its maiden flight Jan. 29 — 47 minutes over eastern Russia — and has flown at least twice since then. The twin-engine jet will replace the MiG-29 Fulcrum and Su-27 Flanker, both fourth-generation front-line fighters.

The first operational T-50s should be delivered in 2015, the same year the Air Force expects its first F-35 Lightning II. Also a fifth-generation fighter, the F-35 has a single supersonic engine and stealth capabilities.

“I didn’t see anything … that would cause me to rethink plans for the F-22 or F-35,” Air Force Secretary Michael Donley told reporters Feb. 18 at the Air Force Association’s winter conference, held in Orlando, Fla.

“Russia has a robust [aircraft industry],” Donley added. “This is not a surprise in that context.”

The PAK-FA resembles the F-22 — distinctive tilted rear tail fins and all — and has many of the same high-tech features, including digital avionics, a phased-array radar and communications equipment to link the fighter to command and control centers, according to the Russian news agency Tass.

The Air Force ordered the last of its 187 F-22s in 2009. Russia has not had a new fighter in nearly 20 years; the Indian air force is also sponsoring development of a version of the T-50.

“It looks like a plane we’ve seen before,” Gen. Roger Brady, the air boss for NATO and commander of U.S. Air Forces in Europe, said at the conference.

Gen. Gary North, commander of Pacific Air Forces, made clear his impression of the fighter: “I guess the greatest flattery is how much they copy you.”

Still, the four-stars wonder whether the T-50 will live up to its fifth-generation billing.

“I don’t know if it’s really a fifth-generation aircraft,” Brady said. “What I do know is that it’s very clear that they’re working on a fifth-generation technology.”

For Brady, Russia’s push on the development front signals that the U.S. cannot settle for the status quo.

“The key is, we must continue to do fifth-generation and sixth-generation research and put money against it because other people clearly are,” Brady said.

North added that the Pentagon must ensure fourth-generation jets such as the F-15, F-16 and F/A-18 are continually upgraded.

“If we’re not going to buy more, what we’ve got to have is the very best that our sons and daughters go out to fight with,” he said.

In tandem with the T-50 project, Russia is developing a long-range bomber.

“We won’t limit ourselves to just one new model,” Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said March 1. “We must start work on a prospective long-range aircraft, our new strategic bomber.”

———

The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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Just though I would give a headline I caught well lurking elsewhere.
before any one asks the bomber is supposed too be under the PAK-DA project it was announced in 2009. the Russians did make a deal with Tupolev and Sukhoi for it rumors very some say a updated Tu 160 or Tu170 others a Flying wing.
 
Miragedriver

Miragedriver

Brigadier
Re: South Korea's KAI F/A-50 Golden Eagle Light Fighter Program

The T-50 Golden Eagle is an excellent design and appears (in my opinion) to be reminiscent of the F-16. Information from “Flight Global” and “manufactures data” indicate that aircraft features a digital fly-by-wire control interface (reportedly triple redundant). The aircraft appears to have an excellent visibility, and reports indicate that it is very maneuverable.
With a powerful radar (too bad the APG-67 was not selected) in an enlarged radome, some AMRAAM’s this aircraft could pack a powerful punch and surprise enemy forces in its first encounter. The F404 turbofan is a well proven engine and generates approximately 79kN ( 18,000 lbs) of thrust. This is the same engine which powers the f-18, F-117, F-20 and the almost built SAIA-90. County’s that are having a difficult time purchasing equipment from China (for political reasons), may find this aircraft a great replacement for the venerable F-5 and A-4 (as was mentioned in another post).
At mach 1.4 this platform would be an excellent replacement for my country’s aged Mirage III and A-4 fleet. However, with the current economic crisis we will most likely get the second hand discards from 1st worlds air forces.
Question for “Semi-Lobster”: How do you feel that this aircraft compares to the JF-17? It seems that a single-seat fighter version of the T-50 could be more versatile and of better quality that the JF-17. After all if the Israel’s are looking at a purchase, it must be a good platform.
 
Y

yehe

Junior Member
Re: South Korea's KAI F/A-50 Golden Eagle Light Fighter Program

Miragedriver said:
The T-50 Golden Eagle is an excellent design and appears (in my opinion) to be reminiscent of the F-16. Information from “Flight Global” and “manufactures data” indicate that aircraft features a digital fly-by-wire control interface (reportedly triple redundant). The aircraft appears to have an excellent visibility, and reports indicate that it is very maneuverable.
With a powerful radar (too bad the APG-67 was not selected) in an enlarged radome, some AMRAAM’s this aircraft could pack a powerful punch and surprise enemy forces in its first encounter. The F404 turbofan is a well proven engine and generates approximately 79kN ( 18,000 lbs) of thrust. This is the same engine which powers the f-18, F-117, F-20 and the almost built SAIA-90. County’s that are having a difficult time purchasing equipment from China (for political reasons), may find this aircraft a great replacement for the venerable F-5 and A-4 (as was mentioned in another post).
At mach 1.4 this platform would be an excellent replacement for my country’s aged Mirage III and A-4 fleet. However, with the current economic crisis we will most likely get the second hand discards from 1st worlds air forces.
Question for “Semi-Lobster”: How do you feel that this aircraft compares to the JF-17? It seems that a single-seat fighter version of the T-50 could be more versatile and of better quality that the JF-17. After all if the Israel’s are looking at a purchase, it must be a good platform.
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The F/A50 are merely a trainer transformed into a light attacker, the Koreans made the aerodynamic as close to a fighter as it could be, but still,anyone take a look at it will know its a trainer, it will never be as capable as a dedicated fighter like the JF17 in terms of air combat, it can take less G force than the JF17, the afterburner with F404 are also less powerful than the RD93 afterburner, in other sense when armed with weapon both should have similer range and speed, however I am not too sure about the FA50 as most statistic we got about it are the trainer version which are proberbly based on unarmed or lightly armed load, it got less wingspan and length than the JF17, The FA50 offersfew or no quality edge over the JF17, the design are quite conventional with not much of innovative highlights as a trainer should be, but then again so is the JF17 except for the DSI intake, but at least its designed as a fighter, the FA50 will never be a real fighter, it can carry a couple AIM9 for air defence, thats proberbly all, its main role will be a light attacker.
But anyways, the FA50 wont be cheap, even the trainer version cost more thant he JF17, when installed with advanced radar and firecontrol systems, the pricetag I would expect to go up even more.
My conclusion is that the FA50 is not bad at all but not worth it, its a good program to start with to boost the capability of the Korean indiginous aviation defence industry with the help of the US and other countries, to gather initial knowlege, thats why the Koreans are willing to pay for it.
 
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L

Lion

Senior Member
Re: South Korea's KAI F/A-50 Golden Eagle Light Fighter Program

Miragedriver said:
The F404 turbofan is a well proven engine and generates approximately 79kN ( 18,000 lbs) of thrust. This is the same engine which powers the f-18, F-117, F-20 and the almost built SAIA-90. County’s that are having a difficult time purchasing equipment from China (for political reasons), may find this aircraft a great replacement for the venerable F-5 and A-4 (as was mentioned in another post).
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Usually countries having political difficulties with China but not western countries will opt for second hand F-16 or Gripen. Golden eagle is redundant IMO. In fact, its the other way round. They are plenty of countries having problem with US but not China and potential of JF-17 is far greater.

But I have heard Iraq Air Force interested in purchasing Golden Eagle but if they are just solely interested in trainer role. China K-8 is a better choice.
And not surprisingly, the rival to Golden Eagle is second hand F-16. If they need a combat aircraft, F-16 fits the criteria better.
 
Y

yehe

Junior Member
Re: South Korea's KAI F/A-50 Golden Eagle Light Fighter Program

Lion said:
Usually countries having political difficulties with China but not western countries will opt for second hand F-16 or Gripen. Golden eagle is redundant IMO. In fact, its the other way round. They are plenty of countries having problem with US but not China and potential of JF-17 is far greater.

But I have heard Iraq Air Force interested in purchasing Golden Eagle but if they are just solely interested in trainer role. China K-8 is a better choice.
And not surprisingly, the rival to Golden Eagle is second hand F-16. If they need a combat aircraft, F-16 fits the criteria better.
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K8 is not a better choice, but certainly a cheaper one, L15 now might be a better AND cheaper choice.
 
Aluka

Aluka

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

challenge said:
correct me, But I do not see any radar blocker in air intake.
if you wanted to see what radar blocker look like, see old picture boeing XF-36.
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Even though you do not see it, there IS or going to be a radar blocker, and yes, it is similar to the one that Boeing XF-36 has.
Personally I am not sure what I see on that picture. Definitely doesn't look like compressor's first stage, but it doesn't look like Sukhoi radar blocker that flashed in internet earlier. This plane is just a test bed, do not forget that.
 
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