The World's 4th, 4.5 & 5th Generation Fighters

Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

Hmmm ... surely You have the same right for YOUR own opinion ... but only because the first leaked J-10B pictures were deemed a photoshoped one - and af corse a much better one than this on the XXJ - it's not a reason to believe that Your posted picture is also a real one.

I think let's wait and drink some cups of tea ... and time will tell.

Deino

Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

Read through the article that Harley had posted and Red mercury had translated, I think what it says make alot of sense, it really is not very clever for the chinese to tell the world about the best things they have.

However there is a couple of points that I felt confuse, maybe Harley can help me out here:

1) If J-14 is suppose to be for export (suggested by the article) isn't it better to tell the world about it first, show the world its capability and stuffs like that, then it would attract more customers. But up till now, very few information are available, and basically not many know of its existence.

2) Unlike missiles and submarines, aircraft secrecy is going to be limited. Afterall it is going to fly, and for a pilot to be really specialised in it, they must fly the plane quite a lot... wouldn't the western intelligence actually pick up something? And if this is the case, why isn't the western sources actually showing any evident yet?

Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

Deino said:

Hmmm ...
but only because the first leaked J-10B pictures were deemed a photoshoped one - and af corse a much better one than this on the XXJ - it's not a reason to believe that Your posted picture is also a real one.

Click to expand...

The first J-10(B) was ridiculed in the net as yet another piece of Chinese wet dream when it first came out and not until it was officially published in Xinhua that people really started to sink in... In fact, at the time, people were so adamant that it was fake that they had branded it as the worst PS piece of artwork -- ever.

The pic I had uploaded was a blurry one suggesting that the source that took the pic had made sure the finer detrails won't be visible to the naked eye because these projects are likely highly classified and that his head would be in the chopping block if he leak details of it to the public.

Besides, no one has ever said that it was the Real McCoy. All I was saying was that it potentially can be a test bed for the rumored J-14. The author was also pretty confident of the subject he was talking about suggesting he knows something about these projects that you and I don't.

isn't it better to tell the world about it first...

Click to expand...

Not necessary, Rhino. For example: Steve of Job's of Apple Computer sure as the heck ain't gonna let you in on the plus sides of the I-Pad until he's good and ready and that means not until the I-Pad is launched...

Similarly, neither will Bill Gates let you know what the next X-Box game boy whatever it's called is all about until Microsoft is good and ready to make it public.

Same logic applies to Chinese technology, both civilian and military. example: how top staffs of Rio Tinto was arrested in China for espionage activities or stealing corporate secrets from Chinese companies doing business with them...

Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

rhino123 said:

Read through the article that Harley had posted and Red mercury had translated, I think what it says make alot of sense, it really is not very clever for the chinese to tell the world about the best things they have.

However there is a couple of points that I felt confuse, maybe Harley can help me out here:

1) If J-14 is suppose to be for export (suggested by the article) isn't it better to tell the world about it first, show the world its capability and stuffs like that, then it would attract more customers. But up till now, very few information are available, and basically not many know of its existence.

2) Unlike missiles and submarines, aircraft secrecy is going to be limited. Afterall it is going to fly, and for a pilot to be really specialised in it, they must fly the plane quite a lot... wouldn't the western intelligence actually pick up something? And if this is the case, why isn't the western sources actually showing any evident yet?

Click to expand...

Chinese wet dream?

Well... I wouldn't bet against the Chengdu boys as even the following has already been assigned a serial or block designation...



Another version of the YFC-1E story:


.

And, if Iran can stealth, why couldn't China stealth as well ? Know what I mean???

Damn! Sounds as if :rofl::rofl: a Latin dance or somethin' ,

I wonder if China is really assisting the Iranians in the development of many of their military hardware as speculated which includes missile and space technology and, ultimately, if not already so, aeronautics as well???

I mean if Chengdu is not crapping about this YFC-1E project, then I call the YFC-1E "the cheaper way to stealth" :roll::roll: ...

I mean the YFC-1E has to be way way cheaper to stealth than starting from scratch as per that of the F-22/PAK-FA and, if the J-10(B) is deemed as a 4.5 G fighter (claimed by Jane's I think), then so should the speculative YFC-1E also be a 4.5 G fighter as well... So could the YFC-1E in fact be the J-14???

It is official acknowlegement that China's flight test center does about a 1000 flight tests annually and divided amongst this 1000 tests, it is stated that 50 new designs are involved therefore something is definitely happening there...

Example: Did you know that they tested the nose cone of the J-1B on the nose of a Y8 transporter for aerodynamics instead of on a Mach 2 plus test bed :coffee::coffee:???

Just a thought...

Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

I think we should transfer this diskussion into the XXJ-tread, since it is here completely off-topic.

Besides that - SORRY to say -... keep on dreaming !

This "Stealhty YFC-1E" concept is several years old and was already then deemed only a fan-art (however agreed: there could be a smaller type in parallel too). And really I don't know how long You are reading in these szene (Chinese forums, BBS, ... chat rooms), but I've seen several much better CG's than the one You posted ... much more realistic ones (esp. the first J-10B-CG, which finally looked like the realy one in many details) ... BUT the XXJ will not look like this !

Again however, everyone has the right to have his own opinion, but Your argument don't persuaded me.

Let's wait and see ...

Cheers, Deino

Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

The inside of the T-50 (I got it from DEW Line).





Nice view of the cockpit.

Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

The picture above is from the simulator and the second one is T-50-0 the static test airframe now in Moscow for static tests.

Deino

Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

Deino said:

I think we should transfer this diskussion into the XXJ-tread, since it is here completely off-topic.

Click to expand...

Why is it different and why should it be moved if what we are engaged in are topics related to the Russian 5th Generation fighter...

Errr... Or should we say the Hindi-Russkie 5th Generation fighter instead... I mean we can't deny New Delhi the credit they are now entitled and due now can we ???

[ The pic I posted is related to the PAK-FA because what I am trying to do is to prove here is that the PAK-FA couldn't have went from a mere CAD drawing to that of a real to life prototype that flies in as short a period as 5 years... (2005 was when Russia offered both China and India to take a partnership in the PAK-FA venture therefore the start of the project likely didn't begin until after 2005)...]

For a real project to go from computer enhanced artwork to that of a real prototype, it takes a minimum of a good decade to fruition. For this reason, I am adamant that the PAK-FA was a hush hush instant moments decision to go crush program to bring the plane into fruition before the J-14 does because, just prior to the first debut of the PAK-FA, Chinese Generals was all over CCTV threatening the possible debut of the J-14 and that just don't fit in well with one of the parties of the PAK-FA project...

In other words: a party in the PAK-FA project wants the credit before the Chinese does at whatever the cost -- even if it's not yet ready...

Deino said:

This "Stealhty YFC-1E" concept is several years old and was already then deemed only a fan-art (however agreed: there could be a smaller type in parallel too).

Click to expand...

It is not the fan-fart that matters, Deino. It's what's in the prints (written accounts) which are interesting and it is in the prints where the the dots to be connected are found and it is these prints that are the most convincing.

I mean unless you are a writer and one in the field of specialty, there's no possible reason for you to waste your time on the Internet by dictate or writing something that does not exist because in so so doing, what purpose does it serve? Hell! I'd much rather spend the night in my favorite Casino watering hole than to fake s story in the Internet to try and convince a bunch of ill manner surfer in the web...

The guy who wrote the article spoke in an air of confidence. That suggests he's well informed on the subject he was talking about.

Deino said:

And really I don't know how long You are reading in these szene (Chinese forums, BBS, ... chat rooms),

Click to expand...

It is precisely from these forums that the first sneak previews (in the forms of rumors) that gave us and US intelligence its first notion of the possible existence of the J-10 of the 093 and 094; and soon after words of the 095 and 096;p and now even an 097; the ASAT which was circulating in Chinese webs since 99; models of the 040 Yuan class was uploaded in Chinese webs sites as early as 2000; and hell, if they upload a pic of the Dark Sword for youi, you'd likely refute it as a wet dream as well...

Deino said:

I've seen several much better CG's than the one You posted ... much more realistic ones (esp. the first J-10B-CG, which finally looked like the realy one in many details) ... BUT the XXJ will not look like this !

Click to expand...

Everything starts out as a CG work of art. I can still remember those awesome pics of American technology being published in Scientific America; in popular Science and in Popular Mechanics and man!! How real those CG artworks have become today -- especially the F-22/35/F-117 and the B-2... They were all no more a Area 51 dreamworks at the time however... Know what i mean???

Deino said:

Again however, everyone has the right to have his own opinion, but Your argument don't persuaded me.

Click to expand...

I'm not trying to persuade anyone, Deino. what I am doing is trying to speculate on why the PAK-FA were such a speedy de gonzala job when rightly, it shouldn't have been ready for at least another 4 to 5 years.

I believe the PAK-FA was a face saving job by one of the members of the PAK-FA partnership (not Russia however) and that it was pushed into making the debut way ahead of its rightful time in the fears that the J-14 would take the credit for being number 2 in the stealth technology field and, having lost the credit to the J-10, they aren't about to let Beijing take this credit if they can help it...

Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

Come on we should stop that discussion !

When was China invited to participate on the PAK-FA ? NEVER ... where's any proof for a 096 or even 097 ?? NONE !

Only because "The guy who wrote the article spoke in an air of confidence" Does that mean any credibility ?? NO, Following some reports written / spoken in the www "in an air of confidence" about UFOs, little green men and so on, does that suggests that they are well informed on the subject ?? NO

Holly crap wqhat are You smoking ???

Deino

PS: And YES, I'm a writer !

Re: Russian fifth generation fighter

Some new images from Paralay via AFM :