The World's 4th, 4.5 & 5th Generation Fighters
- Thread starter Semi-Lobster
- Start date
Re: Russian fifth generation fighter
t said the T-50 is in trouble because the engine cannot meet the requirement. T-50 can only go to Mach 1.3 instead of Mach 1.5. F-22 can go to Mach 1.7
俄T-50遭遇“心脏病” 最大速度只能达到1.3马赫
罗斯联合发动机制造公司总经理瓦西里·拉波季科近日透露，俄第5代战斗机所用的发动机将由数家公司联合研制 。在承担新型发动机研制工作的财团中，联合发动机制造公司占54%的份额，“礼炮”公司则占4 6%的份额。
由于俄第5代战斗机的测试工作已经开始，因此俄国防部中央航空发动机研究所主任弗拉基米尔·斯基宾已请求国 防部尽快开始新型发动机的测试工作。不过，联合发动机制造公司总经理认为新型发动机的测试工作不大可能在近 期启动。他指出：“我们每天都在推进该项计划，但其目前仍处于非常初期的阶段。现在仍在进行喷嘴和燃烧室的 开发工作。”俄联合发动机制造公司此前曾发布正式消息称，新型发动机的生产工作将于2017年开始。不过， 有专家指出，这一日期的估计显然过于乐观。此外，俄目前还缺乏按时完成计划所需的必要资金。还需要指出的是 ，如果俄第5代战斗机T-50的初步测试工作无法在2012年之前完成，那么俄国防部将会推迟采购新型发动机。
除了可能无法按期完成研制工作外，俄新一代发动机的性能也遭遇到质疑。据悉，俄第5代航空发动机117S只 能满足新一代战斗机的最低要求，T-50的最大飞行速度只能达到马赫数1.3，而非军方要求的马赫数1.5。比较而言，美国的F-22的最大飞行速度却可达到马赫数1.7。
117S的另一个“软肋”则是其相对复杂的结构。由AL-31F发展而来的117S仍采用9级高压压气机，而F-22A所装备的F119-PW-100发动机使用的则是6级高压压气机。这一差异直接影响到了117S的可靠性和后勤保障。
目前，联合发动机制造公司与“礼炮”公司正在就如何分担责任进行谈判。据悉，现在主要的问题在于以哪一方的 技术方案为主实施该项计划。“礼炮”公司总经理尤里·叶利谢耶夫透露，其公司的方案已得到俄国防部中央航空 发动机研究所的支持。而形势未必乐观。显然，117S研制组可能具备科研优势资源进行合理配置 。
俄罗斯国内的发动机制造企业数量众多，这种情况不利于集中行业内的优势资源。据了解，英、法等西方国家国内 仅有数家该种企业，而俄罗斯国内竟达33家之多。俄罗斯航空工业的内部竞争程度可见一斑，许多大型制造公司 和工厂在激烈的竞争中丧失自身优势。专家指出，整合发动机行业资源势在必行。,“留里卡-土星”科研生产联合企业总裁尤里·拉斯托什金指出，“只有合并建立大型的联合公司，才能形成强大的科研生产 能力，才能强化俄罗斯在国际航空工业中的优势地位”。目前，俄罗斯政府已经开始将财政资源投入到国内国防工 业体系的调整上。
t said the T-50 is in trouble because the engine cannot meet the requirement. T-50 can only go to Mach 1.3 instead of Mach 1.5. F-22 can go to Mach 1.7
俄T-50遭遇“心脏病” 最大速度只能达到1.3马赫
罗斯联合发动机制造公司总经理瓦西里·拉波季科近日透露，俄第5代战斗机所用的发动机将由数家公司联合研制 。在承担新型发动机研制工作的财团中，联合发动机制造公司占54%的份额，“礼炮”公司则占4 6%的份额。
由于俄第5代战斗机的测试工作已经开始，因此俄国防部中央航空发动机研究所主任弗拉基米尔·斯基宾已请求国 防部尽快开始新型发动机的测试工作。不过，联合发动机制造公司总经理认为新型发动机的测试工作不大可能在近 期启动。他指出：“我们每天都在推进该项计划，但其目前仍处于非常初期的阶段。现在仍在进行喷嘴和燃烧室的 开发工作。”俄联合发动机制造公司此前曾发布正式消息称，新型发动机的生产工作将于2017年开始。不过， 有专家指出，这一日期的估计显然过于乐观。此外，俄目前还缺乏按时完成计划所需的必要资金。还需要指出的是 ，如果俄第5代战斗机T-50的初步测试工作无法在2012年之前完成，那么俄国防部将会推迟采购新型发动机。
除了可能无法按期完成研制工作外，俄新一代发动机的性能也遭遇到质疑。据悉，俄第5代航空发动机117S只 能满足新一代战斗机的最低要求，T-50的最大飞行速度只能达到马赫数1.3，而非军方要求的马赫数1.5。比较而言，美国的F-22的最大飞行速度却可达到马赫数1.7。
117S的另一个“软肋”则是其相对复杂的结构。由AL-31F发展而来的117S仍采用9级高压压气机，而F-22A所装备的F119-PW-100发动机使用的则是6级高压压气机。这一差异直接影响到了117S的可靠性和后勤保障。
目前，联合发动机制造公司与“礼炮”公司正在就如何分担责任进行谈判。据悉，现在主要的问题在于以哪一方的 技术方案为主实施该项计划。“礼炮”公司总经理尤里·叶利谢耶夫透露，其公司的方案已得到俄国防部中央航空 发动机研究所的支持。而形势未必乐观。显然，117S研制组可能具备科研优势资源进行合理配置 。
俄罗斯国内的发动机制造企业数量众多，这种情况不利于集中行业内的优势资源。据了解，英、法等西方国家国内 仅有数家该种企业，而俄罗斯国内竟达33家之多。俄罗斯航空工业的内部竞争程度可见一斑，许多大型制造公司 和工厂在激烈的竞争中丧失自身优势。专家指出，整合发动机行业资源势在必行。,“留里卡-土星”科研生产联合企业总裁尤里·拉斯托什金指出，“只有合并建立大型的联合公司，才能形成强大的科研生产 能力，才能强化俄罗斯在国际航空工业中的优势地位”。目前，俄罗斯政府已经开始将财政资源投入到国内国防工 业体系的调整上。
Re: Russian fifth generation fighter
But doesnt this also means that F119PW100 engine also produce less manouvering performance with only a level 6 high pressure device compared with russian 117S engines level 9?
But doesnt this also means that F119PW100 engine also produce less manouvering performance with only a level 6 high pressure device compared with russian 117S engines level 9?
Last edited:
Miragedriver
Brigadier
Re: South Korea's KAI F/A-50 Golden Eagle Light Fighter Program
Thank you for the reply. I can see how the Golden Eagle could end up costing more than a JF-17. With the higher labor costs in Korea and Japan (The Japanese Mitsubishi F-2 ended up costing are $100 million per unit, and that was in 2004 prices).
There are some aircraft that have made the transition from trainer to fighter, such as the T-38 to F-5 to F-20. But these are few and far between. I agree with you that with the U.S. now selling surplus F-16 the prospect of converting the T-50 would not make sense. However it’s nice to know that your advance trainer can be used as LCA in the event of hostilities.
Thank you for the reply. I can see how the Golden Eagle could end up costing more than a JF-17. With the higher labor costs in Korea and Japan (The Japanese Mitsubishi F-2 ended up costing are $100 million per unit, and that was in 2004 prices).
There are some aircraft that have made the transition from trainer to fighter, such as the T-38 to F-5 to F-20. But these are few and far between. I agree with you that with the U.S. now selling surplus F-16 the prospect of converting the T-50 would not make sense. However it’s nice to know that your advance trainer can be used as LCA in the event of hostilities.
Pointblank
Senior Member
Re: South Korea's KAI F/A-50 Golden Eagle Light Fighter Program
Not exactly, the primary combat aircraft of a new Iraqi Air Force will compose mostly of Western aircraft, most likely American types. And since American influence will continue to play a hand on the new Iraqi Air Force, we can assume that any future advanced trainer for the Iraqi Air Force will most likely be Western types.
Most due to developmental issues along the way.
Not exactly, the primary combat aircraft of a new Iraqi Air Force will compose mostly of Western aircraft, most likely American types. And since American influence will continue to play a hand on the new Iraqi Air Force, we can assume that any future advanced trainer for the Iraqi Air Force will most likely be Western types.
Most due to developmental issues along the way.
Pointblank
Senior Member
Re: South Korea's KAI F/A-50 Golden Eagle Light Fighter Program
And on Iraq, it appears that it is the BAE Hawk that is considered to have the edge, if this has any credence. Other listed contenders being evaluated are the South Korean T-50, and the Italian Aermacchi M-346.
And on Iraq, it appears that it is the BAE Hawk that is considered to have the edge, if this has any credence. Other listed contenders being evaluated are the South Korean T-50, and the Italian Aermacchi M-346.
Re: Boeing's answer to the 4.5 gen aircraft market
Keeping this thread up to date as well. The Silent Eagle had it's maiden flight about 3 weeks ago actually.
The aircraft also already launched the first missile
Boeing also got an export license to South Korea for the aircraft. So it'll be interesting to see if the South Koreans show interest and optentially lead the way. Apparently the Israeli prime minister has also already asked for faster export clearance.
Keeping this thread up to date as well. The Silent Eagle had it's maiden flight about 3 weeks ago actually.
The aircraft also already launched the first missile
Boeing also got an export license to South Korea for the aircraft. So it'll be interesting to see if the South Koreans show interest and optentially lead the way. Apparently the Israeli prime minister has also already asked for faster export clearance.
Re: Boeing's answer to the 4.5 gen aircraft market
I am glad that the F-15 airframe is kept alive by the new Silent Eagle program. Like the Flankers the F-15 is one of the most iconic planes of the 4th generation. Given how sad I was to see the F-14 decommissioned I think I will miss the F-15 greatly the day it is decommissioned too.
I am glad that the F-15 airframe is kept alive by the new Silent Eagle program. Like the Flankers the F-15 is one of the most iconic planes of the 4th generation. Given how sad I was to see the F-14 decommissioned I think I will miss the F-15 greatly the day it is decommissioned too.
Re: Boeing's answer to the 4.5 gen aircraft market
If you belive in a fair fight your not a Marine. But what is really not fair which dont bother me, the Russian Air Craft Industry is on the ropes,,their GDP has dropped from half of that of the USA when it was the USSR to one seventh of the USA,,if the USA can take their market even for a limited time, and especially with India. The USA has wiped out the Migs with out fireing a shot. These Boeing planes plus a surplus of other american planes since the advent of the smart bombs, might just might be the end of the Russian Military Industry.
Published: 3 May 2010 Print | EmailMOSCOW - Russia's defense ministry is pushing domestic companies that build military vehicles to get the armor from Germany, Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov said April 21
Building planes a lot more complicated then getting armor for tanks.
If you belive in a fair fight your not a Marine. But what is really not fair which dont bother me, the Russian Air Craft Industry is on the ropes,,their GDP has dropped from half of that of the USA when it was the USSR to one seventh of the USA,,if the USA can take their market even for a limited time, and especially with India. The USA has wiped out the Migs with out fireing a shot. These Boeing planes plus a surplus of other american planes since the advent of the smart bombs, might just might be the end of the Russian Military Industry.
Published: 3 May 2010 Print | EmailMOSCOW - Russia's defense ministry is pushing domestic companies that build military vehicles to get the armor from Germany, Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov said April 21
Building planes a lot more complicated then getting armor for tanks.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Re: Boeing's answer to the 4.5 gen aircraft market
Don't think that's happening any time soon the USAF F22 fleet was pretty much rendered nonexistent with the stop of production and the F35 is lagging and not a Air too air fighter Eagles will be flying for sometime.
Don't think that's happening any time soon the USAF F22 fleet was pretty much rendered nonexistent with the stop of production and the F35 is lagging and not a Air too air fighter Eagles will be flying for sometime.