The War in the Ukraine

SampanViking said:

Its a tough call for the Ukrainians, defend the key lines in the South or go all out to block the new front wherever it may emerge and kiss goodbye to the South forever, or lose another large chunk of the country somewhere.

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Here gos the rubbish " Russians has no logistic capability".


Say, you establish the point of attack, creating full logistic chain there with trauck convoys, depots and so on.

Effect? It will be obivous for everyone what you plan, and they prepare in advance.
So, you prepare several possible deployment area, each with skeleton logistic systems.
Choose one just at the time of attack, and move every other military unit and logistic structure to the choosen one.

Result ? logistical problems, because you have no chance to extablish the full system prior of need.


Everyone compare this to the typical USA agression, when they select a weak and isolated country, pile of supplies, logistic chain and so on without any consewuence, an when finished in they time and manner doing the invasion.


Say if Russia fight against Serbia or Finland it could be OK, but with a 30+ million country, with a pupet goverment and the USA as puppeteer it is not possible

Interesting graphic showing the amount of equipment that NATO has and what was sent to Ukraine:

Anlsvrthng said:

It is so realistic.

I mean, if you drop a random company, and ask about the current state of them the best that you receive is a generic happy statement about the very good standing of the business, the bright future and so on.
Even if the given business will be in bankrupcy in few hours.

Now, anyone expect that a random person, whom job is to relay infomration to the public could receive anyting better than my above example ? I mean, anything that can be interpreted by not "lie"?

If the answer is yes from anyone then please PM me, I have the Eiffel tower for sale. It is really cheap.

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Give Mike Kofkof the benefit of the doubt.

Sinnavuuty said:

Interesting graphic showing the amount of equipment that NATO has and what was sent to Ukraine:
View attachment 100999

Give Mike Kofkof the benefit of the doubt.

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In grey the number of equipment the country possess, in blue the % sent in Ukraine and the little sphere in blue is the number sent. Still a lot of stuff to scrap over there if NATO want to sent it.

SolarWarden said:

So this is how Russia takes care of their new recruits that is going to deploy to fight a supposed "existential threat?" And lets cut the BS about these being isolated incidents this is happening in many places where new Russian recruits are sent.

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You clearly have had little experience with the military. Leaving you in the middle of nowhere in friendly country with just your regular equipment and tell you to get to base by yourself happens quite a lot. If they cannot navigate in friendly territory without support they can hardly be expected to do well in the field.

SolarWarden said:

There's video of a gym looking building crowded with cots of new Russian recruits coughing up lungs spreading whatever cold-flu virus they are suffering from... it is a mess especially when you see how NATO/US is training Ukranian recruits not to mention the modern gear they are returning to Ukraine with. This war has totally changed my perception of what I thought the Russian military was.

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Because Ukrainians were not mobilizing in school gyms and the like?

SolarWarden said:

There's video of a gym looking building crowded with cots of new Russian recruits coughing up lungs spreading whatever cold-flu virus they are suffering from... it is a mess especially when you see how NATO/US is training Ukranian recruits not to mention the modern gear they are returning to Ukraine with. This war has totally changed my perception of what I thought the Russian military was.

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Le Figaro: French military (350 soldiers) in Romania deployed on the NATO Eastern Flank are freezing, starving and suffering from bedbugs.

BIA denounces the "conditions of life unworthy" of the French soldiers deployed in Romania

The mission, launched on February 28, in response to the strikes russians against Ukraine, aims to strengthen in the long-term defence of the eastern flank of Nato. According to the two deputies, "we are facing a serious problem in the field of logistics and support", say the Untamed in a press release, citing meals extremely frugal, tents, heating random, the presence of bed bugs, or even health in poor condition.

I wonder what % of Russian GDP is being spent on war in Ukraine ! Russia doesn’t have luxury to trade with whole world while still waging a war in Ukraine. With the war escalating, troops fighting on both sides are increasing day by day. Ukraine has economic+ military support from whole NATO, while Russia has to wage the war virtually alone. Russia already couldn’t conquer new lands. I wonder what’s the objective of Russia and will Ukraine ever negotitate and let go of lost territory.
All I see is lose-lose situation for Russia.

MrCrazyBoyRavi said:

I wonder what % of Russian GDP is being spent on war in Ukraine ! Russia doesn’t have luxury to trade with whole world while still waging a war in Ukraine.

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It's this kind of bizarre statement that does the forum no favours.

Only the EU, the US, and other dependent countries such as Canada and Australia, who quickly do what they are told, are sanctioning Russia.

The vast majority of the planet do not have sanctions against Russia.

A recent example is South Africa firmly telling the US to take a hike when they tried to pressure South Africa to put sanctions on Russia.

Why is this very very simple fact so hard for people to grasp?

The world does not only consist of the US, EU, and accompanying lackeys.

It's almost like the ignorance is wilful.
Or done on purpose.

BMUFL said:

To be fair, that's more likely Republicans being contrarians as usual. After all, now that the Iraqistan meta is gone, the MICs need another meta.

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Not contrarians, is just that the Republicans prefer to go to war with China directly, and skip the roundabout White Supremacism of the Democrats

Lethe said:

In any case, I do not mean to belabour Australia's contribution to WW1, only to highlight how deeply unserious Russia's commitment to this war is.

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The Russians could indeed have gone in better manned than they have, but we don't really know what they expect, what they want to achieve in what timelime, so it is all pure especulation on anyone's part

Lethe said:

The numbers from any major power in WW1 or WW2 will bear that out.

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You are comparing Apples and Lettuces here.

Lethe said:

The numbers from any major power in WW1 or WW2 will bear that out. Operation Barbarossa saw Germany and its allies commit over 4 million men to the invasion of the Soviet Union, while by war's end the Red Army numbered over 11 million men and women drawn from a population not much larger than Russia's today.

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Different time, different wars. WW1 was a family feud between inbreed monarchies while in WW2 Germany and Japan represented very real threats not just to the Soviet Union but the world as a whole. You are just comparing wars for the sake of comparing wars.

MrCrazyBoyRavi said:

Russia doesn’t have luxury to trade with whole world while still waging a war in Ukraine.

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Nah, is just mostly trade with the West. Trade with China and Africa seems pretty good and there is also the fact of how dependant the West is on Russian resources and stuff like aeronautical titanium which they won't be able to source from anywhere else for quite a while.

MrCrazyBoyRavi said:

Ukraine has economic+ military support from whole NATO, while Russia has to wage the war virtually alone.

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Ukraine is an economic blackhole and has been even before the start of the invasion in February. The destruction of infrastructure will just make it an even bigger blackhole of resources and such support is also conditioned to the Republicans not winning the Midterms and the Presidency in 2024.

Phead128 said:

Can you clarify what "Russia outlast NATO" means because NATO is not directly involved in the conflict but fighting Russia via proxy. How does one "outlast NATO" when it's not even directly involved in war?

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Just because they aren't directly involved in the conflict doesn't mean they aren't playing a role in it. NATO stopped fighting the Taliban for the last few years of the American occupation but America withdrawing support lead to the collapse of the Afghan regime.

This isn't a limited guerilla war like Afghanistan where you just had to give the Jihadists some AKs and stingers, they are paying for the upkeep of the entire Ukrainian state.

The amount of resources being poured into Ukraine is mind boggling. More is spent in 2 weeks of this conflict than the entire 10 year Operation Cyclone. Before the war the Ukrainian budget was $60 billion a year, and thanks to Ukrainian corruption their budget has ballooned.

America is rich so can continue providing support for some time but Europe is poor.

Lethe said:

Actually, Australia did not have conscription in WW1. Nearly 40% of the male population aged 18-44 volunteered for service. The equivalent number for Russia today would be a scarcely comprehensible >9 million male soldiers under arms. In any case, I do not mean to belabour Australia's contribution to WW1, only to highlight how deeply unserious Russia's commitment to this war is. The numbers from any major power in WW1 or WW2 will bear that out. Operation Barbarossa saw Germany and its allies commit over 4 million men to the invasion of the Soviet Union, while by war's end the Red Army numbered over 11 million men and women drawn from a population not much larger than Russia's today. Adjusted for population, the USA committed significantly more forces to Vietnam than Russia has committed to Ukraine. Sure, war has changed, but that only goes so far.

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Numbers of military age men a country has isn't always comparable. Countries in the 1900s had much better demographic structures than they do now.

This is Russia's current demographic structure:


Russia probably has one of the worst demographic structures in the world, there is no way they can enlist 40% of military age males without society collapsing.