The War in the Ukraine

Zichan · Oct 9, 2022

Former NATO supreme commander Gen. Wesley Clark, probably CNN’s best “defense analyst”, delivered a scathing assessment of Russian army’s military doctrine. He described their way of warfare as still stuck in WW1 with their emphasis on artillery and volumes of fire together with the treatment of the individual soldier as not worth of significant investment in training and left to their own devices to survive on the battlefield.

As many times before, Gen Clark dismisses the tactical impact of nuclear weapons based on his experience of nuclear war simulations in Germany and exhorts us not to be afraid.

FriedButter · Oct 9, 2022

MarKoz81 said:
The bridge was built with economy in mind.

I don’t entirely buy the it was “built with the economy in mind.” There are certainly national security reason beside the economy as the sole reason when it came to the bridge. Whatever anyone likes it or not. It serves as a virtual logistical transport for the Russians in military and civilian sectors. Also Ukrainian shipping from the Sea of Azov had plunged 25% after the completion due to inspections and there was an incident in late 2018 after the road portion of the bridge was finished in early 2018.

xypher · Oct 9, 2022

FriedButter said:
I don’t entirely buy the it was “built with the economy in mind.” There are certainly national security reason beside the economy as the sole reason when it came to the bridge. Whatever anyone likes it or not. It serves as a virtual logistical transport for the Russians in military and civilian sectors. Also Ukrainian shipping from the Sea of Azov had plunged 25% after the completion due to inspections and there was an incident in late 2018 after the road portion of the bridge was finished in early 2018.

There was a post in the world news thread. Seems like some of the Chinese architects also think that the bridge was designed to be cheap and minimize usage of materials:

Not only is its double T-beam structure severely under-strength, but it also minimizes the use of materials, resulting in a severe lack of lateral stability of the bridge. Also this design allows the steel to erode quickly in the marine environment. Bridges of similar size in China or other countries typically use the stronger but also more expensive and complex box girder design.

Another thing worthy of highlight is that the company behind this bridge was actually in the pipeline construction business prior to that and lacked experience in bridge-building:

The construction company that built the bridge is called Stroygazmontazh (S.G.M), a Russian oil and gas pipeline construction company, S.G.M had never built any bridge before constructing the Crimea Bridge in 2015. But its owner, Mr. Arkady Rotenberg was a former classmate and chaperone of Putin's judo class during the Soviet era.

sheogorath · Oct 9, 2022

So, now are all proper bridges and viaducts are supposed to survive 18-wheelers filled with explosives?. Color me doubtful

That fact that the span right next to explosion didn't collapse or warp to the point of unusability seems to have worked pretty well, for a "cheap" bridge.

FairAndUnbiased · Oct 9, 2022

xypher said:
There was a post in the world news thread. Seems like some of the Chinese architects also think that the bridge was designed to be cheap and minimize usage of materials:

Another thing worthy of highlight is that the company behind this bridge was actually in the pipeline construction business prior to that and lacked experience in bridge-building:

As @MarKoz81 pointed out, Russia is more USA-like in infrastructure needs than Chinese or European, so it will build bridges like the US does, not like China does. Some examples in the US (interstate over the Mississippi River):

Based on what he wrote, raw steel is indeed cheaper than reinforced concrete. That's the point. US and Russia have low population density, they need lots of bridges that are not intensively used, but just span A to B as cheaply as possible. China, Japan, ASEAN, Europe, etc. have very high population density, bridges must be strong enough not to just stand but to survive intense use without maintenance.

MixedReality · Oct 9, 2022

Overbom said:
From what I am seeing the past days it seems that Russians have stabilised the front lines, making further advances by the Ukrainian army a lot more difficult.

However I am not sure if this due to Russia forces change of tactics or due to Ukrainian forces consolidating. I suppose we will find out in the next week

All this Ukrainian counteroffensive nonsense would have been made far more difficult if Russia had destroyed Ukraine’s critical infrastructure. Less Western weapons and mercenaries flowing into the war zone. Putin continues to be the main obstacle for a decisive Russian victory. His soft approach is emboldening Ukraine and the West.

Abominable · Oct 9, 2022

Zichan said:
As many times before, Gen Clark dismisses the tactical impact of nuclear weapons based on his experience of nuclear war simulations in Germany and exhorts us not to be afraid.

Its funny how no expert in the west is publically admitting there is a even a small possibility of an all out nuclear war. It's like they are all reading from the same hymm sheet. The message from virtually everyone is don't be afraid, nothing will happen.

Behind the scenes I'm sure the elites do not believe this one bit and are rushing emergency preparations in case the nukes do get launched.

RedMetalSeadramon · Oct 9, 2022

FriedButter said:
I don’t entirely buy the it was “built with the economy in mind.” There are certainly national security reason beside the economy as the sole reason when it came to the bridge. Whatever anyone likes it or not. It serves as a virtual logistical transport for the Russians in military and civilian sectors. Also Ukrainian shipping from the Sea of Azov had plunged 25% after the completion due to inspections and there was an incident in late 2018 after the road portion of the bridge was finished in early 2018.

Not so much with cost as with speed in mind in regards to the bridge. Steel frame designs tends to be lighter than pre-cast box girder so you can have a whole sections pre-assembled and lifted into place quickly. Steel bridges tend to be more maintenance heavy than concrete so cost overall favors concrete.

Andy1974 · Oct 9, 2022

Abominable said:
Its funny how no expert in the west is publically admitting there is a even a small possibility of an all out nuclear war. It's like they are all reading from the same hymm sheet. The message from virtually everyone is don't be afraid, nothing will happen.

Behind the scenes I'm sure the elites do not believe this one bit and are rushing emergency preparations in case the nukes do get launched.

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Tam · Oct 9, 2022

Zichan said:
Former NATO supreme commander Gen. Wesley Clark, probably CNN’s best “defense analyst”, delivered a scathing assessment of Russian army’s military doctrine. He described their way of warfare as still stuck in WW1 with their emphasis on artillery and volumes of fire together with the treatment of the individual soldier as not worth of significant investment in training and left to their own devices to survive on the battlefield.

As many times before, Gen Clark dismisses the tactical impact of nuclear weapons based on his experience of nuclear war simulations in Germany and exhorts us not to be afraid.

Clark is highly hypocritical if you ask me, acting like the media shill he is now. WW2 has massive use of artillery in all sides, and in the Korean War, American artillery is heavily used to beat back Chinese "human waves", albeit with considerable degree of success. Russia trying to conserve much of its manpower tells you that they value the individual soldier above everything else, even if this means abandoning ground and equipment.

The War in the Ukraine

Zichan

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FriedButter

Major

xypher

Senior Member

sheogorath

Major

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier

MixedReality

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Abominable

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RedMetalSeadramon

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Andy1974

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Tam

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