The War in the Ukraine

Abominable · Sep 23, 2022

SlothmanAllen said:
Agreed! cheap UAVs are in their golden age right now.

You can also see the US investing in it as well with Microwave, Laser, Counter-UAS UAS and whatever else exists. I fully expect that China and US will have this problem licked within this decade, and only highly sophisticated drones would be viable against their forces.

I agree as well. This is like 1914 in WW1 before before proper combat aircraft were developed.

Jamming can work to an extent but wouldn't do much against autonomous drones. As for DEW I'm not sure they offer much advantage over conventional projectile or missile based AD.

Chilled_k6 said:
For the purpose of immediate impact on the battlefield, I think Shahed-136 is best suited to be adopted en masse quickly. For the UCAVs they'll need to get Iranian munitions to arm those drones. Once the Russians integrate their own munitions they can do a tag team pair where the Kamikaze drones strike targets first and the UCAVs do follow ups to mop up.

The munition shouldn't matter. All the drone needs to do is drop it.

I would be looking at survival rates for suicide drones. If a lot of them are surviving then reusable drones could makes sense. Instead of it costing $30,000 to precision strike a target you can get the price down to $500.

I would reserve suicide drones for high value targets (e.g. HIMARS, SAMs, tanks) & long distance targets and use reusable drones for everything else.

tank3487 · Sep 23, 2022

Abominable said:
Jamming can work to an extent but wouldn't do much against autonomous drones. As for DEW I'm not sure they offer much advantage over conventional projectile or missile based AD.

Jamming also do not work vs laser communication channel(either with satellite or another drone that are used for relay of signal). More advanced drones can use such backup channel in case of jamming attempt.

Minm · Sep 23, 2022

plawolf said:
Right now is probably the peak of cheap drone capabilities because most professional militaries have not really put serious effort into countering them. So this is pretty much their coming out party akin to when ATGMs and AShM armed FACs first made their combat debuts.

But just as with those previous wonderweapons, once sufficient effort and resources are put to countering them, their effectiveness plummets.

Drones are a bit different. Their combat effectiveness may drop (the TB2 was already not very effective once Russian air defence was operational), but cheap drones will always have the advantage of being expendable. No lives are risked so you can easily provoke the enemy. And if you have the industrial capacity, there's nothing stopping you from making and operating 100,000 of them. This is the beginning of taking the human element out of warfare

Andy1974 · Sep 23, 2022

Minm said:
Drones are a bit different. Their combat effectiveness may drop (the TB2 was already not very effective once Russian air defence was operational), but cheap drones will always have the advantage of being expendable. No lives are risked so you can easily provoke the enemy. And if you have the industrial capacity, there's nothing stopping you from making and operating 100,000 of them. This is the beginning of taking the human element out of warfare

The supply chain and supply route of these Iranian drones should get Russian protection, I wonder if it will come under attack?

If Iran can supply 100,000 of these the West will have to respond with everything they have. It could be a race for who can produce the most now.

sheogorath · Sep 23, 2022

kokole said:
Zelensky is furious about the Iranian drones:

Ukraine to Slash Ties With Iran Over 'Evil' Drones Supply to Russia

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It has been interesting seeing Zelensky devolve from a histrionic but still somewhat composed "leader" to a seemingly whinny little brat demanding stuff from everybody, which makes you wonder how much control he still has at this point.

Tam · Sep 23, 2022

FairAndUnbiased said:
Damn, the kamikaze drones are putting in some work.

Turns out a primitive piston propeller "missile" with 50 kg warhead costing 50k can sometimes outperform turbofan or rocket missile with 500 kg warhead costing 1 million.

I suspect that modified Aliexpress commercial drones, specifically the Skyeye 4450, which costs only US$7000, has a 20kg payload and a range of over 700km, was responsible for the attack on the Russian Navy headquarters at Sevastopol and most importantly, the devastating attacks on their Crimean ammo depots and oil centers, and especially the much publicized attack on the airbase. Either that or even bigger Aliexpress drones with bigger range and payloads like the Skyeye 5000 and 5500. But at some point the Russians finally understood what the culprit was and adapted to it. All these along with the extensive use of Mavics on both sides further highlights the duality of commercial drones, and the stunning impact they can have on the modern battlefield.

supersnoop · Sep 23, 2022

I think the rumour of M1s and Leo2s being sent will be put to rest now.

reservior dogs · Sep 23, 2022

Tam said:
I suspect that modified Aliexpress commercial drones, specifically the Skyeye 4450, which costs only US$7000, has a 20kg payload and a range of over 700km, was responsible for the attack on the Russian Navy headquarters at Sevastopol and most importantly, the devastating attacks on their Crimean ammo depots and oil centers, and especially the much publicized attack on the airbase. Either that or even bigger Aliexpress drones with bigger range and payloads like the Skyeye 5000 and 5500. But at some point the Russians finally understood what the culprit was and adapted to it. All these along with the extensive use of Mavics on both sides further highlights the duality of commercial drones, and the stunning impact they can have on the modern battlefield.

When I read the 700KM, I thought it was a typo, but it is surprising how much you can buy with a few thousand dollars. Now if you can develop some addons like onsite control from special force units, onboard laser guides for bombs, sensors and processors that will search and lock on certain electromagnetic signatures, that will make it very lethal.

baykalov · Sep 23, 2022

sheogorath said:
It has been interesting seeing Zelensky devolve from a histrionic but still somewhat composed "leader" to a seemingly whinny little brat demanding stuff from everybody, which makes you wonder how much control he still has at this point.

Zelensky's statements today sound desperate:

Zelensky: I would like China to help Ukraine

President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky said that at the moment he does not have a channel of communication with China, but he would like to get help from this state against amid Russia's invasion.

"Before the large-scale invasion, there were communication channels between our countries, we had a lot of economic and trade cooperation," Zelensky said in an interview with a number of French media outlets, Ouest France newspaper reports.

However, at present, he said, he does not have a channel of communication with China.

"And this is a shame. I would like them [China] to help Ukraine," the president said, answering a question about China's ambiguous attitude towards the Russian war in Ukraine.

Zelensky also added that as of today, a call with his Chinese president "would be difficult."

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Ukraine's president urges citizens to 'sabotage' Russian army from the inside out

Ukraine's President has urged his citizens in areas occupied by Russia to avoid conscription "by any means", but if they are forced into the army to "sabotage" it from the inside.

In his nightly address, Volodymyr Zelenskyy said: "I have a simple request to all our people in the temporarily occupied territory: do the main thing – save your lives and help us weaken and destroy the occupiers.
"Hide from the Russian mobilization by any means. Avoid conscription letters. Try to get to the free territory of Ukraine.
"But if you get into the Russian army, sabotage any activity of the enemy, hinder any Russian operations, provide us with any important information about the occupiers – their bases, headquarters, warehouses with ammunition.
"And at the first opportunity, switch to our positions. Do everything to save your life and help liberate Ukraine."

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Zelensky says he’s ‘shocked’ by lack of Israeli arms support: ‘They gave us nothing’

Ukrainian president Vlodomyr Zelensky complained in an interview Friday that Israel had given his country “nothing” to help it defend itself, indicating that its leaders had been disingenuous in rejecting his requests for air defense systems.

"Israel did not provide us with anything. Nothing. Zero! I am not accusing the leaders. I note the facts: there were discussions with the leaders of Israel, and it did not help Ukraine," he continued."

Though it has sent humanitarian aid to Ukraine, Israel has repeatedly rebuffed Kyiv’s requests for defense weapons, specifically missile defense systems that could be used to fend off Russian airstrikes, despite expressing sympathy for the country’s plight.

"I am shocked. I did not understand what happened to Israel," Zelensky said during an exclusive interview with the French television network TV5Monde. "I don't understand why they can't provide us with anti-aircraft means."

However, Zelensky, who said he spoke to Prime Minister Yair Lapid and his predecessor Naftali Bennett about air defense supplies, indicated that he was told the reason for the refusal was that Israel needed the batteries for its own protection.

“I understand they need to defend their land, but then I got information from my intelligence services that Israel provides [the air defenses] in other countries. They can sell, they can export, which is why I am shocked.”

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FairAndUnbiased · Sep 24, 2022

kokole said:
Zelensky's statements today sound desperate:

Zelensky: I would like China to help Ukraine

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Ukraine's president urges citizens to 'sabotage' Russian army from the inside out

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Zelensky says he’s ‘shocked’ by lack of Israeli arms support: ‘They gave us nothing’

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The War in the Ukraine

Abominable

Major

tank3487

Junior Member

Minm

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Andy1974

Senior Member

sheogorath

Major

Tam

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supersnoop

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reservior dogs

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baykalov

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FairAndUnbiased

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