The War in the Ukraine

BoraTas

Captain
Registered Member
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Interesting part of the article is this:


Even he sees at this point without full mobilization they're just wasting blood and treasure here.
Medvedev is calling for a larger air campaign and doubling of the committed forces too. The pressure on Putin is increasing. This war is a failure in its current form. I think the lack of Russian Army personnel in Kharkiv makes things look worse if real. How can you not have soldiers (I mean real soldiers, not police or hastily trained militia) in such a large piece of occupied territory?
 

Janiz

Senior Member
So as I see it, the Ukrainian forces in the Kharkov counter offensives have not yet fought a major battle and the gains of the last few days were achieved through Russian forces withdrawing rather than winning an offensive action and actively conquering them.
I'm interested in the sources that said that there was no battles. No one knows what was happening there (aside from rumours) and you're writing like you know something that no one else knows here.
I also understand that the Russian forces have made no further withdraw today and that any "advances" made by Ukrainian forces today were only in relation to places that the Russians left over the last couple of days.
They retreated a few kilometers towards Kherson as they have problems with ammo it seems.
 

LawLeadsToPeace

Senior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
Banned member:

Appix: 2 days
Despite numerous warnings from moderators, user continues to post tweets from random people who have no relevant background. In addition, user didn't provide any meaningful commentary such as a good summary

Warning to everybody else: please do not just post links with little to no meaningful commentary. Otherwise, we will take action.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
If Russia does not declare war and mobilize right now then Putin should hand his chair over to Zelensky because that's what he is demanding.

I really wish people would just stop and think before they keep making this tired old argument. As if it was that easy or cost free and all Putin had to do was snap his fingers and millions of fully trained and equip soldiers would magically appear overnight.

I think that the main reason Putin hasn’t fully mobilised yet is because that’s not a viable option. And not just because of the political and economic costs, but also military.

Currently, it’s the professional Russian army engaged in Ukraine. Obviously they did not deploy the whole army, but what has been deployed is probably close to what they can maintain in a sustained manner. They can surge troops every now and again, which may be what they are doing now, but that’s only viable short term.

For Russia to have significantly more combat troops is to deploy their conscripts. Sure that will add a few hundred thousand extra warm bodies, but I have serious reservations about just how combat effective Russian conscripts are. I think they may not even be at the same level as the DNR militias since the DNR seems to be getting a lot of decent hardware and have seen a lot of fighting in the last few years. Russian conscripts may only be at 2014 Ukraine army standards, and we all saw how useful that caliber of troops are

So, mobilisation and declaring war isn’t actually likely to change things up on the ground in Ukraine for the Russians all that much, at least not in the short term and probably not in the ways they want.

They are going to move from a situation where they have too few soldiers to a situation where they have too few good soldiers, who on top of fighting the enemy, now may also need to babysits FNG conscripts. The kind of low cost (in lives) tactical retreat we just seen may not even be possible with a large number of green conscripts scattered all over the place getting underfoot.

Unlike the US in Vietnam, Russian conscripts won’t have the luxury of having air dominance and CAS all the time to bail them out, when they fuck up, they are liable to suffer serious casualties. It’s the Russian ground forces that are doing all the heavy lifting in this war so far, and the demands on them and the fighting skill of their troops may surprise many who sneer. Especially when you consider they are overwhelmingly using dumb rounds instead of PGMs.

Ironically, the recent twin Ukrainian offensives offers up very effective illustrations on the effectiveness and value of conscripts vs professional military. How well did Ukrainian conscripts fair? Was it worth it to even deploy them other than to act as extremely expensive human decoys and bullet sponges to prepare the field for the professional soldiers elsewhere?

But one thing for sure will happen if they deploy conscripts, Russian combat casualties will jump up, and their K/D rations will plummet. Worse for Putin is that more body bags will return home to Russian families instead of Eastern Ukrainian ones.

The root of Russia’s current battlefield woes is still the same as from the start of the war - corruption, mismanagement and penny pinching in their military modernisation. Declaring war and throwing in the conscripts solves none of those problems.

Too much of their military modernisation was done for show and on the cheap. Too much spent on fancy planes and mighty ships and too little on less sexy but more practical and important stuff like PGMs, SEAD jamming pods, targeting pods, UAVs, comms, night vision, thermal and above all - training. They also cut their professional military numbers by too much, and conscripts are just not up to scratch to be worth the costs of deploying them.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
I really wish people would just stop and think before they keep making this tired old argument. As if it was that easy or cost free and all Putin had to do was snap his fingers and millions of fully trained and equip soldiers would magically appear overnight.

I think that the main reason Putin hasn’t fully mobilised yet is because that’s not a viable option. And not just because of the political and economic costs, but also military.

Currently, it’s the professional Russian army engaged in Ukraine. Obviously they did not deploy the whole army, but what has been deployed is probably close to what they can maintain in a sustained manner. They can surge troops every now and again, which may be what they are doing now, but that’s only viable short term.

For Russia to have significantly more combat troops is to deploy their conscripts. Sure that will add a few hundred thousand extra warm bodies, but I have serious reservations about just how combat effective Russian conscripts are. I think they may not even be at the same level as the DNR militias since the DNR seems to be getting a lot of decent hardware and have seen a lot of fighting in the last few years. Russian conscripts may only be at 2014 Ukraine army standards, and we all saw how useful that caliber of troops are

So, mobilisation and declaring war isn’t actually likely to change things up on the ground in Ukraine for the Russians all that much, at least not in the short term and probably not in the ways they want.

They are going to move from a situation where they have too few soldiers to a situation where they have too few good soldiers, who on top of fighting the enemy, now may also need to babysits FNG conscripts. The kind of low cost (in lives) tactical retreat we just seen may not even be possible with a large number of green conscripts scattered all over the place getting underfoot.

Unlike the US in Vietnam, Russian conscripts won’t have the luxury of having air dominance and CAS all the time to bail them out, when they fuck up, they are liable to suffer serious casualties. It’s the Russian ground forces that are doing all the heavy lifting in this war so far, and the demands on them and the fighting skill of their troops may surprise many who sneer. Especially when you consider they are overwhelmingly using dumb rounds instead of PGMs.

Ironically, the recent twin Ukrainian offensives offers up very effective illustrations on the effectiveness and value of conscripts vs professional military. How well did Ukrainian conscripts fair? Was it worth it to even deploy them other than to act as extremely expensive human decoys and bullet sponges to prepare the field for the professional soldiers elsewhere?

But one thing for sure will happen if they deploy conscripts, Russian combat casualties will jump up, and their K/D rations will plummet. Worse for Putin is that more body bags will return home to Russian families instead of Eastern Ukrainian ones.

The root of Russia’s current battlefield woes is still the same as from the start of the war - corruption, mismanagement and penny pinching in their military modernisation.

Too much of their military modernisation was done for show and on the cheap. Too much spent on fancy planes and mighty ships and too little on less sexy but more practical and important stuff like PGMs, SEAD jamming pods, targeting pods, UAVs, comms, night vision, thermal and above all - training. They also cut their professional military numbers by too much, and conscripts are just not up to scratch to be worth the costs of deploying them.

What mighty ships? Yachts?
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Subs. Not much in the way of hardware to show yet, but a hell of a lot of their limited budget was devoted to the development of their next gen nuke subs. Also their carrier burnt a lot of cash that would have been far better spent elsewhere.

Subs are important for them. Creates credible nuclear retaliation force.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Subs are important for them. Creates credible nuclear retaliation force.

Yes and no. They already have a more than credible nuclear retaliation force from their silo and road mobile ICBM inventories. If they had zero subs, you think the Americans would be brave enough to even think about using nukes against Russia? Subs doesn’t really change much for them other than prestige.

The best argument in favour of their nuke sub development would be to retain the knowledge and skills it took so long and cost so much to accumulate. Which would be fair, but they could have been smarter and less proud. China would have paid for their entire military modernisation had the Russians been willing to sell and share its nuclear sub secrets. That would have turned their cash black hole into the biggest cash cow for them.

Putin may have offered that now, but it’s questionable just how much China is now prepared to paid since it has already gone through the pain of developing the 095 and 096 class.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
Too much of their military modernisation was done for show and on the cheap. Too much spent on fancy planes and mighty ships and too little on less sexy but more practical and important stuff like PGMs, SEAD jamming pods, targeting pods, UAVs, comms, night vision, thermal and above all - training. They also cut their professional military numbers by too much, and conscripts are just not up to scratch to be worth the costs of deploying them.
Given this, what's their way out now? Obviously, Russia doesn't have the resources to mount large offensives and what they currently hold is just about all they're going to get. NATO wants to fight this to the last Ukrainian and Ukraine is happy to oblige, so what's Russia's response?
 
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