The War in the Ukraine

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
If Russia does not declare war and mobilize right now then Putin should hand his chair over to Zelensky because that's what he is demanding.
It's just nationalistic bluster. Even if you spirited away the 1 million or so Russian troops in existence leaving the RF itself completely undefended, Putin could still end the war with status quo ante bellum by threatening nukes on Kiev and Lvov unless Ukraine respects the February 23 borders.

Russians didn't even follow the real third reich nazi ultimatum when they were outside Moscow and sieging Volgograd. And back then they had no nukes. These "demands" sent by the Kiev regime for public consumption have as much chance becoming even close to reality as I have at becoming General Secretary of the CPC.
 

drowingfish

Junior Member
Registered Member
It's just nationalistic bluster. Even if you spirited away the 1 million or so Russian troops in existence leaving the RF itself completely undefended, Putin could still end the war with status quo ante bellum by threatening nukes on Kiev and Lvov unless Ukraine respects the February 23 borders.

Russians didn't even follow the real third reich nazi ultimatum when they were outside Moscow and sieging Volgograd. And back then they had no nukes. These "demands" sent by the Kiev regime for public consumption have as much chance becoming even close to reality as I have at becoming General Secretary of the CPC.
yes this is not a smart move by ukraine as a whole. it is likely a result of warring factions competing for credit of this victory and jockeying for influence. i read that someone pointed out that zelensky has been uncharacteristically quiet these days while the military has been quite vocal, reflects some interesting change in the power dynamic. in the end talking tough isnt going to help ukraine as they will be forced to deliver, and russia isnt even close to being defeated at this point.
 

gadgetcool5

Senior Member
Registered Member
The Russians don't want to fight. From the moment the Ukrainians started putting up real resistance, their answer has been to retreat, retreat.

It's pretty dishonorable of Putin to throw his troops lives away for nothing. I mean, the Ukrainians took high casualties but at least their troops deaths had meaning. Putin is throwing his men into battle without the necessary support to win, even though he could provide it. That is effectively murder.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
It's just nationalistic bluster. Even if you spirited away the 1 million or so Russian troops in existence leaving the RF itself completely undefended, Putin could still end the war with status quo ante bellum by threatening nukes on Kiev and Lvov unless Ukraine respects the February 23 borders.

Russians didn't even follow the real third reich nazi ultimatum when they were outside Moscow and sieging Volgograd. And back then they had no nukes. These "demands" sent by the Kiev regime for public consumption have as much chance becoming even close to reality as I have at becoming General Secretary of the CPC.
This is symbolic but it should be taken seriously. The symbolism is that now Ukraine has declared the intent to invade Russia and seek unconditional surrender. Russia should declare war in self defense as now it's nominally an existential conflict.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
The Russians don't want to fight. From the moment the Ukrainians started putting up real resistance, their answer has been to retreat, retreat.

It's pretty dishonorable of Putin to throw his troops lives away for nothing. I mean, the Ukrainians took high casualties but at least their troops deaths had meaning. Putin is throwing his men into battle without the necessary support to win, even though he could provide it. That is effectively murder.
Putin is a reason why police do not necessarily make good presidents. There's a reason why in China, politicians need some regional leadership before national leadership in executive roles.
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
Why would the Ukrainian army need galvanising? They don't seem to have any major problems with morale. Western media is full on fascist controlled and only putting out a pro-Ukrainian narrative and are happy to burn their economies to keep the Ukrainian war machine going.

If the territories were so important to the Ukrainians why give them up a few months ago? They could have carried on reinforcing and resupplying units and it would have been much better.

The only reason why this suicidal offensive could be considered a good idea is to demoralise Russians into a complete collapse. That's why as well twitter and forums like here have been bombarded with bots. I think it has worked to a degree, but not enough to cause the regime change they want.

When the Russians gather their thoughts they will find themselves in a very favourable position. If reinforcements do come I hope they aren't all sent to Donbass and they actually consider opening up a new front in western Ukraine again.
I think it's overly optimistic to say this offensive was not bad for Russia. They made a smart choice of retreating in a safe manner while inflicting some casualties, but Ukraine has won some territory.

And there are legit reasons why Ukraine would want to trade lives for territory, so it's not like its a psyop to make Russians break or anything like that. Russia's army in Ukraine is all volunteers following the RU command, they're not gonna break because some guy on reddit now thinks Ukraine will enter Belgorod. For one, Ukraine has a lot of lives to trade with.

The South is most important for Russia, but they must have more troops in order to open new fronts. In that regard, it is actually almost irrelevant if Ukraine can make gains in the North if Russia is storming the South. If Odessa and Mykolaiv falls, it is pretty much game set match for Russia, because the northern territories of Ukraine are landlocked.

And regarding a point which some people have raised here, that AFU will massacre civilians and this will cause problems for the RU army later, this is a mind-boggling conclusion. In no conflict in recent history has atrocities made the civilian victims more attached to the side that committed atrocities while making them distrust the side that "couldn't protect" them.

Did the French in ww2 hate the British and US armies for not liberating them sooner, or did they hate the nazi German armies for killing them? Did the Chinese civilians hate the communist army for not protecting them or did they hate the nazi Jap armies for killing them?

It makes absolutely no sense to draw this conclusion would be any different in the Donbass.

And for this reason, AFU will not engage in large scale massacres against civilians. RU supporters claim a genocide of Russians will happen because it fits their image of barbarian AFU. US/NATO nationalists claim a genocide will happen because as usual like the very democratic and not at all authoritarians nor fascists they are, they happily wish for genocide against those who they don't like.

Yes, some "national (read:national socialist) battalions" might run amok and kill dozens, because they're not rational organizations. But it is inconceivable that AFU itself will commit ethnic cleansing in the newly recaptured territories.
 

solarz

Brigadier
I have to laugh at all the armchair generals moaning or celebrating the recent Russian retreat, as if it wasn't normal for frontlines to change in a war.

They seem to have forgotten that winter is coming for Europe, and that Ukraine's supplies are almost entirely coming from there.

Russia can afford to wait.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
I have to laugh at all the armchair generals moaning or celebrating the recent Russian retreat, as if it wasn't normal for frontlines to change in a war.

They seem to have forgotten that winter is coming for Europe, and that Ukraine's supplies are almost entirely coming from there.

Russia can afford to wait.
Well, if they wait, they need to keep lines as static as possible and inflict attrition. If there's retreat away from Orskil River then it's a collapse and it's not waiting anymore. So for now we can say they're waiting, but their position is not so good.
 
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