The War in the Ukraine

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
Putin made the wrong assumptions. His war was planned as just a quick, short attack.
His plan in the first place was stupid. Also rule number 1, plans mean jacksht in a war. Germany also had a plan to conquer the world, how did it go for them..

Btw do you also remember the YOLO isolated convoys at the start of the war, the pathetic first strike, and then the funny school trip to Kiev and back? those were some fun times. Now its just sad watching them lose like that
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
There are many things with the Russian military that don't make sense

- Lack of a counter to Javelin. Javelin's development was started in 1985. So even the Soviet Union probably knew of it. But we have Russia lacking a counter to it 37 years later. The Soviet Union used to come up with reliable counters to new Western ATGMs in 10 years at maximum.

- Complete lack of SEAD. They weren't planning to wage a war of conquest against a country with Soviet AA legacy. They completely ignored it. We are at the 7th month and the Russian Air Force is still confined to low altitudes.

- Inadequate night vision equipment. This is unacceptable. Even in NERF matches at night a single person with night vision equipment can hold himself against 15 people. Ukraine, with limited numbers of Western supplied night vision equipment, is outperforming Russians at night.

- Inadequate communications equipment. We know a lot of Russian soldiers are using radios that you can buy from a supermarket.

- Artillery use methods are backward. I wrote a dedicated message about this in past. Little to no smoke, guided or cluster munitions. Little mechanization in ammo handling. Artillery pieces that are mostly been left unmodernized since the 1980s. No shoot and scoot. No MRSI. Bad communications with ISR assets and front line units. Lack of proximity fuses in shells. Considering how much they plan their military around their artillery, this is very consequential.

- Not enough infantry for a country as big as Ukraine. This could be corrected between 2014 and 2022. Instead we had scaledowns and partial commitment.

All of these 6 are very confusing. None of these are tech related or even very expensive. We shouldn't be talking about proximity fuses in 2022. What is this? 1955?

Because those things don’t look good or impressive and takes time and effort to develop. Instead the money is blown on prestige projects like keeping the carrier alive.
 

baykalov

Senior Member
Registered Member
Comment by Scott Ritter on Telegram, I quote:

I have been asked to comment on the situation in eastern-southern Ukraine following the commencement of a major counteroffensive by the Ukrainian armed forces (UAF). Given the fluidity of the situation on the ground, I will avoid trying to conduct a detailed analysis of the specific actions that have taken place, are taking place, and will take place. I am thousands of miles removed from the battlefield and am in receipt of incomplete and often contradictory pieces of information. Any effort to try and paint a complete picture of this battlefield would be, in my case at least, a fool’s errand.

I will start with first principles. War is a complicated business. Any effort that overlooks this reality when promulgating “solutions” to problems on the battlefield is self-nullifying.

Both the Ukrainian and Russian militaries are large, professional organizations backed by institutions designed to produce qualified warriors. Both militaries are well led, well equipped, and well prepared to undertake the missions assigned them. They are among the largest military organizations in Europe.

The Russian military is staffed by officers of the highest caliber, who have undergone extensive training in the military arts. They are experts in strategy, operations, and tactics. They know their business.

The Ukrainian military has undergone a radical transformation in the years since 2014, where Soviet-era doctrine has been replaced by a hybrid doctrine which incorporates NATO doctrine and methodologies. This transformation has been accelerated dramatically since the outset of the Special Military Operation, with the Ukrainian military virtually transitioning from older Soviet-era heavy equipment to an arsenal which more closely mirrors the table of organization and equipment of the NATO nations which are providing billions of dollars of equipment and training.

The Ukrainians are, like their Russian counterparts, military professional’s adept at the necessity of adapting to battlefield realities. The Ukrainian experience, however, is complicated by the complexity associated by trying to meld two disparate doctrinal approaches to war (Soviet-era and modern NATO) under combat conditions. This complexity creates opportunities for mistakes, and mistakes on the battlefield often result in casualties—significant casualties.

Russia has fought three different style wars in the six months that the Special Military Operation has been underway. The first was a war of maneuver, designed to seize as much territory as possible to shape the battlefield militarily and politically. The Special Military Operation was conducted with approximately 200,000 Russian and allied forces, who were up against an active-duty Ukrainian military of some 260,000 troops backed by up to 600,000 reservists. The standard 3:1 attacker-defender ratio did not apply—the Russians sought to use speed, surprise, and audacity to minimize Ukraine’s numerical advantage, and in the process hoping for a rapid political collapse in Ukraine that would prevent any major fighting between the Russian and Ukrainian armed forces.

This plan succeeded in some areas (in the south, for instance), and did fix Ukrainian troops in place and cause the diversion of reinforcements away from critical zones of operation. But it failed strategically—the Ukrainians did not collapse, but rather solidified, ensuring a long, hard fight ahead.

The second phase of the Russian operation had the Russians regroup to focus on the conquest/liberation of the Donbas region. Here, Russia adapted its operational methodology, using its superiority in firepower to conduct a slow, deliberate advance against Ukrainian forces dug into extensive defensive networks and, in doing so, achieving unheard of casualty ratios that had ten or more Ukrainians being killed or wounded for every Russian casualty.

While Russia was slowly advancing against dug in Ukrainian forces, the US and NATO provided Ukraine with billions of dollars of military equipment, including the equivalent of several armored divisions of heavy equipment (tanks, armored fighting vehicles, artillery, and support vehicles), along with extensive operational training on this equipment at military installations outside Ukraine. In short, while Russia was busy destroying the Ukrainian military on the battlefield, Ukraine was busy reconstituting that army, replacing destroyed units with fresh forces that were extremely well equipped, well trained, and well led.

The second phase of the conflict saw Russia destroy the old Ukrainian army. In its stead, Russia faced mobilized territorial and national units, supported by reconstituted NATO-trained forces. But the bulk of the NATO trained forces were held in reserve.

These are the forces that have been committed in the current phase of fighting—a new third phase. Russia finds itself in a full-fledged proxy war with NATO, facing a NATO-style military force that is being logistically sustained by NATO, trained by NATO, provided with NATO intelligence, and working in harmony with NATO military planners.

What this means is that the current Ukrainian counteroffensive should not be viewed as an extension of the phase two battle, but rather the initiation of a new third phase which is not a Ukrainian-Russian conflict, but a NATO-Russian conflict.

The Ukrainian battleplan has “Made in Brussels” stamped all over it. The force composition was determined by NATO, as was the timing of the attacks and the direction of the attacks. NATO intelligence carefully located seams in the Russian defenses, and identified critical command and control, logistics, and reserve concentration nodes that were targeted by Ukrainian artillery which operates on a fire control plan created by NATO.

The tactics used by Ukraine appear to be completely new. Probing attacks are launched to force the Russians to reveal their defensive fires, which are then suppressed by Ukrainian counterbattery fires directed by drones and/or counterbattery radars. Then highly mobile Ukrainian forces rapidly advance through identified seams in the Russian defense, driving deep into largely unprotected territory. These main columns are supported by raids carried out by vehicle mounted troops which strike Russian rear area positions, further disrupting any Russian response.

In short, the Ukrainian army that Russia is facing in Kherson and around Kharkov is unlike any Ukrainian opponent it has previously faced. Advantage, Ukraine.

Russia, however, is a capable military opponent. The potential for a Ukrainian counteroffensive has been known for some time. To think that Russia has been taken completely unawares is to be dismissive of the professionalism of the Russian armed forces.

But there are some operational realities that accrue when Russia has self-limited itself to a forces structure of around 200,000 men, especially when fighting on a battlefield as large as the one that exists in Ukraine. Ther are simply not enough forces to go around, and as a result, Russia has deployed forces in low-priority sectors more thinly than would be otherwise advisable. These forces occupy strongpoints that are designed to cover the gaps between strongpoints with firepower. The Russians have also identified forces who would reinforce these thinly held areas of the front as required.

It is possible to have a situation where Russia anticipated the potential for a concerted Ukrainian counterattack, and yet was still taken by surprise at the combination of new factors that presented themselves once this attack materialized. The speed of the Ukrainian advance was unexpected, as were the tactics used by Ukraine. The level of operational planning support and intelligence provided by NATO in support of this counterattack likewise appeared to have taken the Russians by surprise.
But the Russian army is extremely adaptive.

They have shown a willingness to save lives by giving up territory, allowing the Ukrainians to expend resources and capability without conducting a decisive engagement with Russian troops. Where required, Russan troops matched the audacity and courage of the Ukrainian forces with their own courage-laced tenacity, holding out in an effort to delay the Ukrainian advance while other Russian forces redeployed.

At the end of the day, it appears that Ukraine with exhaust its carefully gathered reserve forces before the bulk of Russia’s response engages. The Kherson e=offensive appears to have stalled, and whether by design or accident, the Kharkov offensive is shaping up to become a trap for the Ukrainian forces committed, who find themselves in danger of being cut off and destroyed.
At the end of the day, this counteroffensive will end in a strategic Ukrainian defeat. Russia will restore the front to its original positions and be able to resume offensive operations. The Ukrainians, meanwhile, will have squandered their reserves, limiting their ability to respond to a new Russian advance.

This doesn’t mean the war is over. Ukraine continues to receive billions of dollars of military assistance, and currently has tens of thousands of troops undergoing extensive training in NATO nations. There will be a fourth phase, and a fifth phase…as many phases as necessary before Ukraine either exhausts its will to fight and die, or NATO exhausts its ability to continue supplying the Ukrainian military. I said back in April that the decision by the US to provide billions of dollars of military assistance was ‘a game changer.”
What we are witnessing in Ukraine today is how this money has changed the game. The result is more dead Ukrainian and Russian forces, more dead civilians, and more destroyed equipment.

But the end game remains the same—Russia will win. Its just that the cost for extending this war has become much higher for all parties involved.

Scott Ritter
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Abominable

Major
Registered Member
It's clear that Russia simply doesn't have enough soldiers committed into the conflict.

The idea to build up the separatists to do the bulk of the fighting has shown to be a failure.

With all the video of English speaking "volunteers" popping up, one might question what the degree of involvement from USA is. Right now it is very unclear due to fog of war, but I have a feeling that just as Americans were very confused why a "beaten" KPA could suddenly roll back all their gains in October-November 1950, we will eventually see the true degree of how much of the AFU is actually Ukrainian and how much is NATO.

I think many have underestimated NATO, believing they will not dare to throw troops into the meat grinder and can only fight conflicts against non entities like Afghanistan, but in fact they do have the political capital and courageous soldiers enough to fight a succesful uphill battle with no air cover. Without equal sized amounts of RU troops, LDPR militia will simply not hold.

What remains to do now is for Russia to openly declare war, scrape all the sources of support (both civilian and foreign government) they can find just like Ukraine is doing, and then make a new try.

If anything this is a lesson USA who is right now just as Russia trying to "help" some separatist republics secede should pay strong attention to. Don't half ass measures and don't send run down equipment to rebel forces and expect them to do the bleeding. Either openly declare war, throw the whole military at the enemy and win, or don't meddle in other countries' civil wars at all.
You can have a million soldiers, if your ROI are poor you still will find the same problems.

Ukrainians massacre civilians who collaborated with Russians. Russians gives Ukrainian collaborators Russian passports.
Ukrainians bomb Russian controlled towns daily including with mines to maximise civilian death. Russia does nothing but complain.
Ukrainians bomb nuclear plants repeatedly, again Russia does nothing but complain.
Ukrainians effectively use chemical weapons by bombing chemical weapons plants near civilian areas.
Ukrainians torture and execute Russian POWs, Russia for the most part treats Ukrainian POWs like their own children.

I don't blame Ukraine for doing so, they want to win and are prepared to do anything possible.

How does having more enlisted soldiers change any of the above? Russia needs to change their strategy. They aren't here to liberate Ukrainians, any more than the war against Germany was to liberate Germans.

This isn't an insurgency against your own people where you need to be more moral. You win by killing the enemy. Both America and the USSR did what was needed to win against the Nazis. They didn't fret whether it was acceptable to firebomb a city full of civilians or kill a group of captured SS soldiers. It needed to be done, so it was done.

There's literally no incentive not to. The west is already accusing Russians of being war criminals, may as well give something real for them to complain about and solve the Ukrainian problem at the same time.

Note all of the above sounds like political interference, i.e. Putin. I can't imagine Russian generals being so soft handed when it comes to Ukrainians.

When (or if) the war is won, ask the Israelis how to deal with a hostile population. You don't give them all Russian passports, you give them ID cards and monitor and control them.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
What this means is that the current Ukrainian counteroffensive should not be viewed as an extension of the phase two battle, but rather the initiation of a new third phase which is not a Ukrainian-Russian conflict, but a NATO-Russian conflict.
Delusional copium
How many NATO aircraft, ships, divisions, brigades, tanks, is Russia fighting against?

This is a war between Russia and a NATO-supported Ukraine. That's it.
Russia can't even handle a NATO proxy war lol
 

delta115

Junior Member
Registered Member
You can have a million soldiers, if your ROI are poor you still will find the same problems.

Ukrainians massacre civilians who collaborated with Russians. Russians gives Ukrainian collaborators Russian passports.
Ukrainians bomb Russian controlled towns daily including with mines to maximise civilian death. Russia does nothing but complain.
Ukrainians bomb nuclear plants repeatedly, again Russia does nothing but complain.
Ukrainians effectively use chemical weapons by bombing chemical weapons plants near civilian areas.
Ukrainians torture and execute Russian POWs, Russia for the most part treats Ukrainian POWs like their own children.

I don't blame Ukraine for doing so, they want to win and are prepared to do anything possible.

How does having more enlisted soldiers change any of the above? Russia needs to change their strategy. They aren't here to liberate Ukrainians, any more than the war against Germany was to liberate Germans.

This isn't an insurgency against your own people where you need to be more moral. You win by killing the enemy. Both America and the USSR did what was needed to win against the Nazis. They didn't fret whether it was acceptable to firebomb a city full of civilians or kill a group of captured SS soldiers. It needed to be done, so it was done.

There's literally no incentive not to. The west is already accusing Russians of being war criminals, may as well give something real for them to complain about and solve the Ukrainian problem at the same time.

Note all of the above sounds like political interference, i.e. Putin. I can't imagine Russian generals being so soft handed when it comes to Ukrainians.

When (or if) the war is won, ask the Israelis how to deal with a hostile population. You don't give them all Russian passports, you give them ID cards and monitor and control them.
Agreed

You don't fight someone and hold back you punch, knock them out in the first hit if you can. During the fight your opponant will not notice you being nice to them or even if they did, they will use it to their advantage.
 

Broccoli

Senior Member
Because those things don’t look good or impressive and takes time and effort to develop. Instead the money is blown on prestige projects like keeping the carrier alive.

Russia has similar budget as Britain & France but far larger military and is developing multiple different ICBM's among other things. Russia is a middle power what behaves like it's a superpower despite not having money to back it up... experts in small circles have said this before but now everyone sees it.
 
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