The War in the Ukraine

reservior dogs

Junior Member
Registered Member
I mean the history/geopolitical lecture is nice but it does not answer my question. I don't think a few of those replies do fully either. The justification of the war is just that, justification, I want to know how Russia can/will end this war now that it has started it 6 months ago with no end in sight.

At this stage in the war, Ukraine does not look like it's anywhere close to collapsing like the mood in this thread seems to imply and Russia does not seem like it can get the decisive victory it needs without either full mobilization or the use of tactical nukes in combat, the aerospace forces is all but absent for a global power and Ukraine is managing to fly it's planes in Kherson this far into the conflict even with the famous Russian air defence network in place. So I ask again, with the cards on the table now, how can Russia end the war in a way that is beneficial to its future?

Relying on China to bail them out incase they lost just sounds like a long winded way to say that Russia isn't winning.
If you look at the war from the Ukrainian side, things are looking increasingly desperate. The counter offensive seems to be the act of a desperate nation. Sending your troops in open flatland with no cover. Many foot soldiers marching along a single tank when the enemy has many ways to shoot at you.

In Donbass things have indeed slowed to a grinding halt. This is all the more surprising when you consider how quickly Lysychansk fell. After the Russians shorten their defensive line which free up a lot of troops against a line that is hastily put up after the fall of Lysychansk. Something does not add up. Even if you accept that the Russians are more averse to losses after Lysychansk, they should be able to take towns much smaller than Lysychansk quicker. Instead of interpreting this as Russians running out of steam as many in the West, I believe this is a deliberate choice by the Russians to slow down the war. I don't know the reasons for sure, but can speculate that it could be linked to geopolitics with Europe or maybe the Ukrainians are now trying to negotiate an end to the conflict.

If no negotiated settlement (surrender) from Ukraine, I believe the Russians have the ability and motivation to press on. They should have no problem taking Donbass. Once Donbass is taken, they will eventually push to take all Southern Ukraine and all territories East of the Dnipro river. At this point, the newly formed republics have what it takes to handle a much weakened Ukraine that is an economic basket case, landlocked and depopulated. I think Russia will declare victory at that point and go home.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Exactly. Russia already imports the bulk of its machine tools from China (and that will only increase), and unlike Europe actually has energy to run its factories.
Well, you need nitrates to make both fertilizer and explosives. And ammonia is made with natural gas. Which went up by like 400% outside Russia. I doubt any Western explosive manufacture will be cheap if it happens. And if we are talking about steel casings it is not like Russia will run out of steel any time soon.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
The pontoons are gone again. This just seems more and more like a trap now that it's pretty obvious Russia always had the ability to knock out the pontoons if it wanted, but left it alone, and even let Ukraine capture one of its own pontoon with little resistance or any effort to destroy it. The AFU just kept pouring troops through, despite Russian airforce appearing to have free rein in this specific area without any signs of Ukrainian AA as far as I can tell. View attachment 97075
Ukrainian air defense has no time to set up in the offensive area, nor does it have cover or concealment like forest or urban area.

With cover and concealment with a set of prepared launch sites, air defense is extremely hard to destroy. See Vietnam.

Without cover or concealment, without good setup, air defense is food. See Iraq.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
I mean the history/geopolitical lecture is nice but it does not answer my question. I don't think a few of those replies do fully either. The justification of the war is just that, justification, I want to know how Russia can/will end this war now that it has started it 6 months ago with no end in sight.

At this stage in the war, Ukraine does not look like it's anywhere close to collapsing like the mood in this thread seems to imply and Russia does not seem like it can get the decisive victory it needs without either full mobilization or the use of tactical nukes in combat, the aerospace forces is all but absent for a global power and Ukraine is managing to fly it's planes in Kherson this far into the conflict even with the famous Russian air defence network in place. So I ask again, with the cards on the table now, how can Russia end the war in a way that is beneficial to its future?

Relying on China to bail them out incase they lost just sounds like a long winded way to say that Russia isn't winning.

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not just trolling.

The ultimate outcome of wars are decided as much by economics as battlefield results, especially in peer or near-pear wars. That is something a lot of people seem to be forgetting after all the ‘wars’ America fought against hopelessly outmatched opponents.

When decisive battlefield total victory is unattainable or too cost prohibitive, you instead focus on weakening the enemy first through attrition and economic means.

Even the most vaunted American wars involve the attritional phase of destroying as much enemy manpower and war machines as possible for as little loss on your side as possible. The main difference is that America uses air power while Russia uses artillery.

Sanctions and embargo’s have become so commonplace people forget it’s basically a core prerequisite to war to weaken the enemy further.

Now that Russia’s hopes for a quick and cheap victory has failed, it is biding it’s time to weaken its enemies militarily through high and unsustainable attrition of Ukraine’s combat strength; and through economic means by collapsing the economies of the European powers most supportive of Ukraine.

Time is on Russia’s side, they can keep this current level of combat operations and economic warfare up pretty much indefinitely if needed. That is why Putin isn’t going full mobilisation. This is now a marathon, not a sprint. He is in no rush to end this war anytime soon while it is the west that grows more desperate by the day as their economies and living standards collapse around their ears with each new round of price hikes.

Putin is now playing the long game and waiting for either Ukraine to run out of men, or the EU to run out of will and economic power to support the war, whichever comes first he doesn’t particularly care, although I suspect he would prefer for the EU to collapse into revolution and chaos, so he may well dial down the intensity of combat operations to keep the war going for longer.
 

Skye_ZTZ_113

Junior Member
Registered Member

Sinnavuuty

Senior Member
Registered Member
No offence but when is Girkin not pessimistic? Kudos to his command during the 2014 Donbass war but he’s been a big naysayer ever since falling out with the authorities there and in Russia.

I’m starting to think ppl calling him a “6th columnist” or “allisloster” might have a point.
Yup. Strelkov certainly is. He's been saying this since April.
Although all of these ‘reports’ just seems to be minimally changed copy pasta of all the other stories we have been bombarded with since the very start of this war about how the Russians are supposed to be running low on everything from men to tanks to PGMs to cruise missiles to washing machines. I will believe it once I see Iranian drones and NK MLRS confirmed on the battlefields of Ukraine.
This western claim that the Russians are running out of missiles is ridiculously funny, especially cruise missiles. For example, according to the Russian MoD bidding website, the production of TRDD-50x turbo-fan engines (Izdelie 37 and modifications) is at the level of 1,500 units per year. Just divide into groups because only Kalibr (3M14) uses TRDD with code 37-01. The others (02, 03, 04, M) are equipping Kh-55, 101 and the new missile 9A5015 (Izdelie 715).

Also, Kalibr (Kalibr-NK), Club, R-500 – they are all different missiles. And each has very significant numbers on the “shopping list” of recent years. Only Kalibr-NK is being produced at a rate of 200-250 units per year. Counting that they have been manufactured since 2014, the account is far from those estimated by the traditional media. And there's still X55, 101/102 etc..
 
Top