The War in the Ukraine

Jiang ZeminFanboy said:

So how many are duplicated? I read that many are the same pictures but no one made a count, I guess someone should done it if so many are fakes. Let's say e.g. 20% of the MBT counted by Oryx are duplicated, then what about the losses which are not on the pictures? Idk, but for sure quite a lot are not counted, then maybe also 20% are without the photos then the loss of tanks are again 1000.

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The problem is many may be Ukrainian that is pass off as Russian. Have you seen oryx Ukrainian losses? If you believe those numbers, then I got some crypto that I can sell you.

It's hard to take oryx seriously if they are not neutral in counting Ukrainian numbers too.

I mean if Russian losses are that high and Ukrainian losses are that low, why are they still fighting on Ukrainian soil?

Jiang ZeminFanboy said:

So how many are duplicated? I read that many are the same pictures but no one made a count, I guess someone should done it if so many are fakes. Let's say e.g. 20% of the MBT counted by Oryx are duplicated, then what about the losses which are not on the pictures? Idk, but for sure quite a lot are not counted, then maybe also 20% are without the photos then the loss of tanks are again 1000.

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My question is more about the claims of many of the images they use. They claim them destroyed, abandoned or captured, but how do they know it is the case? Obviously some tanks are blown to bits, but many they claim as destroyed could be recovered and repaired. Likewise with abandoned and captured tanks, often we just see a tank without the crew visible. They could be buttoned down or simply off-camera. How does Oryx account for the fact that Russia and Ukraine use much of the same equipment, and even captured tanks? A T-72B3M abandoned by the Russians and captured by Ukraine and subsequently lost in action, do they count that as a Ukrainian or Russian loss? Probably more importantly to the war effort (of either side) is, did the crew survive? Tanks are replaceable, tankers aren't.

IMO, I never used Oryx as a sort of scoreboard. I only use it to look at images out of curiousity. The final tally will probably be revealed some years after the war.

Jiang ZeminFanboy said:

So how many are duplicated? I read that many are the same pictures but no one made a count, I guess someone should done it if so many are fakes. Let's say e.g. 20% of the MBT counted by Oryx are duplicated, then what about the losses which are not on the pictures? Idk, but for sure quite a lot are not counted, then maybe also 20% are without the photos then the loss of tanks are again 1000.

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You realize that disabled tanks are often recovered after combat? Do you ever take that into consideration? If just going by Oryx-style statistics, US and UK probably lost hundreds, if not thousands of heavy armored vehicles during their occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan.


"OMG, M1A2 just got absolutely destroyed! What a piece of junk! Look at the crew getting dragged out of the tank on stretchers! Brave Fedayeen ghost of Fallujah got evil Americans on the run! Allah Akbar!" - Oryx, probably

Looks like Ukraine manage to make a dirt bridge from one of the destroyed pontoon and took the town of Blagodatovka and the Russian pontoon there. Ukraine seems to be putting all their hopes in this offensive and are sending everything they got into the pocket

Abominable said:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566023495665999873

A leaked US assessment of Ukrainian soldiers being trained in the UK. Looks like training is going very badly.

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This is clearly fake, reads nothing like a report in the military. there is also no such thing as comprehensive nato weapon training standard. you also don't just request ak when recruits are unable to learn m-16, that is simply not how army training works.

GodRektsNoobs said:

You realize that disabled tanks are often recovered after combat? Do you ever take that into consideration? If just going by Oryx-style statistics, US and UK probably lost hundreds, if not thousands of heavy armored vehicles during their occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan.

"OMG, M1A2 just got absolutely destroyed! What a piece of junk! Look at the crew getting dragged out of the tank on stretchers! Brave Fedayeen ghost of Fallujah got evil Americans on the run! Allah Akbar!" - Oryx, probably

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Western armour losses in Iraq were well documented. A comparative handful compared to the vast piles of burnt Soviet crap cluttering up the Ukrainian countryside.

Even if you cut Oryx figures in half, the Russians have still lost more equipment in combat than the allies in Iraq and Afghanistan combined.

lucretius said:

Western armour losses in Iraq were well documented. A comparative handful compared to the vast piles of burnt Soviet crap cluttering up the Ukrainian countryside.

Even if you cut Oryx figures in half, the Russians have still lost more equipment in combat than the allies in Iraq and Afghanistan combined.

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Well documented...well let me guess, you actually believe in US official causalty figures. The guys that would attribute serious combat damage to mechanical failures and will go to any extent to claim that none of their planes are shot down in air to air combat, rather due to AA or even mechanical problems. Not to mention doing everything they can to hide their casualty numbers, even changing criteria of what is considered "a loss" or "damage." And that's just for starters.

What you said was easier to hide prior to popularization of smartphones, but no longer. For example, if that M1A2 I posted prior wasn't disabled on live camera, would you have known about it?

B777LR said:

My question is more about the claims of many of the images they use. They claim them destroyed, abandoned or captured, but how do they know it is the case?

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You might know it but there guys in the OSINT end of things that by looking at the photo can usually tell you what hit a tank or other vehicle. They might not be 100% accurate but they're correct in most the cases. They're as good at assessing damage as mechanics who know their thing (they're military equipment maniacs). Those guys aren't anonymous and well known in the local and international circles. Many of them came from Russia for example - now they can't share their work unfortunately for obvious reason (facing 15 years in jail). But they did in Syrian conflict on the other hand. Many of those guys learned a lot about Soviet/Russian on the base of the said conflict as there's a ton of material coming from that war btw.

When it comes to Oryx I think that everyone's allowed to signal inconsistencies and write to the guys. If the reasons are right they're correcting their lists.

Janiz said:

You might know it but there guys in the OSINT end of things that by looking at the photo can usually tell you what hit a tank or other vehicle. They might not be 100% accurate but they're correct in most the cases. They're as good at assessing damage as mechanics who know their thing (they're military equipment maniacs). Those guys aren't anonymous and well known in the local and international circles. Many of them came from Russia for example - now they can't share their work unfortunately for obvious reason (facing 15 years in jail). But they did in Syrian conflict on the other hand. Many of those guys learned a lot about Soviet/Russian on the base of the said conflict as there's a ton of material coming from that war btw.

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Yeah, and they aren't biased in one form or another, right? Hilarious that some of the stuff you posted literally came from guys that had their affiliations and biases clearly stated by themselves, and yet you take their words to be the objective, unbiased truth.

Oryx, on the other hand, is much more subtle. While he doesn't state his biases directly, it's evident he promotes whoever NATO is backing at the moment, only to ditch them as soon as NATO changes their orientation. From FSA to Saudi Arabia to Ukraine. Not to mention his hard on for Turkey.

lucretius said:

Western armour losses in Iraq were well documented. A comparative handful compared to the vast piles of burnt Soviet crap cluttering up the Ukrainian countryside.

Even if you cut Oryx figures in half, the Russians have still lost more equipment in combat than the allies in Iraq and Afghanistan combined.

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Another example of US losses. Without Iraqi PMC filming the event, would you have known these SEALS were killed in Mosul? The entire incident was only lightly covered and quickly burried.

Now what if it's footage of Russian Spetsnaz in Ukraine? No doubt that it will be spammed all over Twitter by US sponsored keyboard warriors and bots. Hence why people in the West actually think Russia is losing and are completely oblivious that Ukraine has lost ~100,000 troops. Also hence why the Taliban takeover of Afghanistan was so shocking.