The War in the Ukraine

tankphobia said:

I'm not going to sit here and justify the war because it will just go in circles, bring it back to my original point that even with all the alleged corruption and endless footage pasted here of the ineptitude of the Ukrainian armed forces, 5 months on Russia has captured barely 20% of their territory. By all metrics but those from the most ardent nationalists, they have not achieved their objectives against a country that has 3x less people and a bit more than 10% GDP, A country with no navy and little airforce to speak of.

So what would be the reason?
A) Russian forces are much less capable than expected (My main point)
B) Western Weapons are making a difference (that just proves my first point if small arms turned the tide)
C) Ukraine has super Nazi space mutant super soldiers
D) Putin got bamboozled by the FSB and that a minimal of Ukrainian turn coats actually turned (First point, i.e hybrid warfare doesn't work)

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The goal of Russia isn't to occupy the Ukraine, it is to denazify it. Russia could take any city in Ukraine if they wanted to, but what's the point? Taking Ukrainian territory is pointless if its still choke full of Ukrainian nazis. The USSR made that mistake in 1945 when they rehabilitated all these Ukrainian Nazis, which is why we have the problems today.

It's better to get them all to pick up a gun and voluntarily walk to their deaths. By that measure Russia's war has been very successful, as evidenced by the mass desertions and unrest in the Ukrainian army. The west have had to impose Geobbels tier censorship on their own citizens to keep up the charade that Ukraine is winning. If Russia really was losing there would be no need for that.

Keep this up and by the end of the year Ukraine will be a barren wasteland ready to redevelop with EU/US funds as reparations for their support of Nazis.

RottenPanzer said:

Where's the source for this supposed "classified" meeting?

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sndef888 said:

I don't think that's correct

According to my secret classified source, Russia only lost 20 men

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Bellum_Romanum said:

How would you know or obtain such information if it was "CLASSIFIED" because that defeats the purpose of calling for a classified meeting only for the juicy content to be leaked out by the very people that were supposed to be For Your Eyes Only.

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Source is her:

tankphobia said:

Every day that this war drags on, its detrimental to both Russia and Ukraine. Is it not better Russia fully mobilize and crush Ukraine now rather than have western weapons continue to trickle in for a few more years? I can't see how completely demolishing every city they capture is better for their "brothers" future than if they can rush through (this is supposing they can, which they can't),...

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Mobilization and crushing Ukraine in blitzkrieg is contradicting your "concerns" about civilian lifes.
Blitzkrieg inflicts massive casualties to civilian and military life. The only effect you will have is ten thousands if not hundred thousands dead, low moral on all sides, complete destruction of all hopes to have any support amongst the civilian population in Ukraine and beyond doubt in Russia.

...5 months on they can't get air superiority against 1980s s300s. So what is the ultimate aim of this war? if they're aiming to help their brethren in Donbass and Luhansk then why send all their young men to die and give them second hand equipment? If you think that Russia should expand then just say it, no need to hide behind dubious claims of protecting minorities.

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The aim of this war was a consequence of what was unfolded before Russia. A NATO trained and equipped country to be Anti-Russian with a president that was told to piss of Russia by openly threatening Russia to become NATO member and acquire Thermonuclear weapons, which Ukraine has enough scientists, know-how and resources to do in rather short time.
Based alone on the last threat the US or China would have already crushed Ukraine and send cruise missiles in the capitol and RADA to kill as many as possible of the politicians.

Russia is neutralizing a NATO threat at its doorstep and along is freeing it's lands from western assets. This is crucial to world peace since M.A.D. is the only insurance we have to avoid Thermonuclear exchange on strategic levels!

Ukraine could do whatever it wanted and Russia wouldn't give a flying turd about Ukraine as long as they would not be a western military asset. Russia does not need the lands nor the people just for the sake of expansionism.

Ukraine is in such bad state that almost the entire economy is collapsing and Russia would need to rebuild it for the next 20 years.

tankphobia said:

I'm not going to sit here and justify the war because it will just go in circles, bring it back to my original point that even with all the alleged corruption and endless footage pasted here of the ineptitude of the Ukrainian armed forces, 5 months on Russia has captured barely 20% of their territory. By all metrics but those from the most ardent nationalists, they have not achieved their objectives against a country that has 3x less people and a bit more than 10% GDP, A country with no navy and little airforce to speak of.

So what would be the reason?
A) Russian forces are much less capable than expected (My main point)
B) Western Weapons are making a difference (that just proves my first point if small arms turned the tide)
C) Ukraine has super Nazi space mutant super soldiers
D) Putin got bamboozled by the FSB and that a minimal of Ukrainian turn coats actually turned (First point, i.e hybrid warfare doesn't work)

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You can partially get your answer from US in Afghanistan. A country with GDP of 1060 times of its enemy, population 7.7 times of its enemy, second industrial country of the word, after 20 years of fighting controlled nothing but a few cities (few percent of territory). The enemy has zero air force, zero tank, zero artillery, zero almost everything. We are not even counting thousands troops of US puppet states and their population, weapons and GDPs.

So what reasons can you make out of it?

On the other hand, Russia is way smaller in all the metrics above compared to US, Ukraine is way larger in all the metrics than Afghanistan. The war is only 5 months long. And you are already trying to make conclusions?

taxiya said:

You can partially get your answer from US in Afghanistan. A country with GDP of 1060 times of its enemy, population 7.7 times of its enemy, second industrial country of the word, after 20 years of fighting controlled nothing but a few cities (few percent of territory). The enemy has zero air force, zero tank, zero artillery, zero almost everything. We are not even counting thousands troops of US puppet states and their population, weapons and GDPs.

So what reasons can you make out of it?

On the other hand, Russia is way smaller in all the metrics above compared to US, Ukraine is way larger in all the metrics than Afghanistan. The war is only 5 months long. And you are already trying to make conclusions?

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We do not actually know what Putin is trying to achieve - I'm sure there's more to it than meets the eye eg. Ukraine may not be the only target. He may be using this war to cripple economies of EU considering the effects the war has on EU, maybe also to unveil the weaknesses of the incumbent power, the West. He probably looked a few more steps further and wider; so there should be more KPIs he is aftering. Putin's hidden objectives aside, I would say the war is a very successful one for Russia if you just look at the resources deployed by Russia and the damage it caused. As we are speaking, a few hundred thousands soldiers (not from the top echelon, as we have read somewhere) with some old equipment are crippling the entire nation of 40+ mil people. So Putin is merely using a few % of Russia to cause crippling and destructive effects on Ukraine. The hidden objectives of Putin, if achieved, will tilt the scale further.

Isn't it clear by now, if not from day 1, that this is a war between Russia and NATO ? And it is now being fought on 2 fronts :

• A physical war being fought in a country called Ukraine
• An economic war

Most of us are surprised Russia appears only to have a slight edge in the physical war, for a variety of reasons. And we are even more surprised that the West have just a slight edge on the economical front.

While this thread excludes the moral, political and economical aspect of this war, it is difficult to talk about Russia's objective in Ukraine without taking into consideration Russia's objectives at the economic front also.

Rettam Stacf said:

Isn't it clear by now, if not from day 1, that this is a war between Russia and NATO ? And it is now being fought on 2 fronts :

• A physical war being fought in a country called Ukraine
• An economic war

Most of us are surprised Russia appears only to have a slight edge in the physical war, for a variety of reasons. And we are even more surprised that the West have just a slight edge on the economical front.

While this thread excludes the moral, political and economical aspect of this war, it is difficult to talk about Russia's objective in Ukraine without taking into consideration Russia's objectives at the economic front also.

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As far as west goes USA is doing alright, Europe is under total defeat in the economic front.

Abominable said:

The goal of Russia isn't to occupy the Ukraine, it is to denazify it. Russia could take any city in Ukraine if they wanted to, but what's the point? Taking Ukrainian territory is pointless if its still choke full of Ukrainian nazis. The USSR made that mistake in 1945 when they rehabilitated all these Ukrainian Nazis, which is why we have the problems today.

It's better to get them all to pick up a gun and voluntarily walk to their deaths. By that measure Russia's war has been very successful, as evidenced by the mass desertions and unrest in the Ukrainian army. The west have had to impose Geobbels tier censorship on their own citizens to keep up the charade that Ukraine is winning. If Russia really was losing there would be no need for that.

Keep this up and by the end of the year Ukraine will be a barren wasteland ready to redevelop with EU/US funds as reparations for their support of Nazis.

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I don't see how they can regime change Ukraine without first occupying Kyiv, they went from demilitarization and denazification to regime change. Ukrainians support continuing this war until at least Feb 24th lines are reached.



In the opening of the war the Russians made great gains through surprise, but couldn't capitalize on it due to logistic issues, those issues will only come back when they push further into Ukraine.