The War in the Ukraine

plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Zichan said:
Ballistic and supersonic missiles will be more expensive and far bulkier compared to equal range subsonic cruise missiles.

I remember a study done after WW2 that showed that the V-1 cruise missile was one of the most efficient bombardment implements of the war, regardless of the fact that great numbers of them were shot down by AAA and fighter aircraft. The UK devoted huge resources to air defense against them, whereas against the V-2 ballistic missile there was no defense and no resources were diverted in that direction. Had the Germans invested all their V-2 resources into V-1 they would’ve caused far more damage to the Allied war efforts.
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Slightly off topic but potentially still relevant, because the above is incorrect. The British would have invested similar resources into countering the V1 no matter how many V1s were sent against them after a minimum threat threshold had been achieved by the Germans. After the British fully committed to defending against V1s, throwing exponentially more V1s at the British would not yield anything like the same level of counter investment by the British and would actually only serve to increase the cost effectiveness of existing British investments into countering V1s.

A great counter example in the current context would be TB2s.

During initial phases of the war, TB2s enjoyed great success because the Russians failed to effectively defend against them.

However, once the Russians did start to take the TB2 threat seriously and defend against it as such, the effectiveness of TB2s plummeted.

The soliton to this problem for Ukraine isn’t to go doubling down and buying hundreds more TB2s.
 
Z

Zichan

Junior Member
Registered Member
BoraTas said:
Subsonic cruise missiles are too expensive for a large bombing campaign too. The likes of the P-500 and P-700 were really big enough to severely restrict delivery options.
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The same cannot be said for the P-800 and P-900, and their Chinese counterparts the YJ-12 and YJ-18.
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But none of those missiles have anywhere near the 2,500km+ range of Tomahawk and Kalibr. They don’t even qualify as comparison. Even DF-21 falls short.

Just because Russia is using Kalibrs, does not mean they are the right tool for the job. They would probably be better off with a cheap, slightly modernized version of V-1 that flies above AAA and MANPADS. Such missiles can attack where Russian aircraft dare not and would quickly exhaust Ukraine’s stockpile of defensive missiles. The USAAF estimated that a V-1 equivalent could be manufactured for just $600 in 1943 dollars. That would be $10,000 dollars today.
 
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Abominable

Major
Registered Member
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/vs1jet
Another video from Ukrainian soldiers, this time it's soldiers who fled from Lisichansk, apparently one commander is unhappy with the other that they withdrew from Lisichansk.

To me it confirms that the Ukrainian withdrawal from Lisichansk wasn't planned. It happened spontaneously around week ago when Russians started shelling Ukrainian positions heavily. Instead of staying and fighting soldiers just started deserting independently, just like in Mariupol and Sieverdonetsk.
 
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Janiz

Senior Member
Abominable said:
To me it confirms that the Ukrainian withdrawal from Lisichansk wasn't planned. It happened spontaneously around week ago when Russians started shelling Ukrainian positions heavily. Instead of staying and fighting soldiers just started deserting independently, just like in Mariupol and Sieverdonetsk.
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Looking at the amount of heavy equipment Ukrainians left behind or was destroyed by Russians there (like M109's, PZH2000's, Krabs etc.) posted in this very thread alone that must've been a total chaos.

Not even counting thousands of Ukrainian POWs that we've seen on the footage.

:rolleyes:
 
F

FADH1791

Junior Member
Registered Member
Attacking Seversk makes the most sense. It’s by flatland, the Ukrainian forces that retreated from Lysychansk are there so the defenders of the town are already hearing horror stories of Russian firepower. Plus there was not time to prepare defenses. The Russians can cross the rivers to attack Seversk in the north and back. Basically overwhelming the defenders and force them to retreat again. Also they can attack Bakhmut from the rear this encircle it. Bakhmut and Soledar are heavily defended. Seversk is the weak point of Ukrainian defense. They say there is 20k fighters in the town. I don’t believe it. There is likely 20k fighters in the Seversk/Soledar/Bahkmut line with the bulk of fighters in Bakhmut.
 
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Soldier30

Senior Member
Registered Member
Incredibly, a Russian soldier destroyed an S-300 SAM launcher of Ukraine with one shot, the cost of the S-300 SAM system was $250 million.


What Russia is storming in Ukraine, the defensive structures of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. When they say that the advance of the Russian army in Ukraine is slow, no one usually mentions the built defensive structures of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. It is also worth noting that now is not the Second World War and soldiers are not thrown into attacks on machine gun embrasures. For 8 years, the engineering troops of Ukraine have built many kilometers of defensive systems, this is of course not the Mannerheim Line, but these structures still need to be captured by the troops. Caponiers for heavy military equipment have been prepared in many places, where tanks or armored vehicles can be placed. Built concrete bunkers and bunkers that are even difficult to destroy artillery. You can keep the defense in them for several months in a row, even underground tunnels have been built. War correspondents showed the concrete structures of the Ukrainian army in the Donbass. Some examples of Ukrainian fortifications in the video.

 
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