The War in the Ukraine

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
I think the Russians were overly ambitious in the armored pushes in the Northeast. The expectation was Kharkov would have turned to the Russian side and that failed. The previous pro-Russian civilian leadership in Kharkov had been purged two years before and no longer held control. But it worked in the south. Kherson turned. So it was basically a gamble and some of it paid off.

While there was resistance in Sumy and Chernihiv, had Kharkov folded, the Russian right flank would have been secured and those cities were encircled already. There were continuous but sparse attacks on the Russian supply lines but it would have been a matter of sending Rosgvardiya and cleaning the rear up. It would have been a matter of time until those cities broke down under encirclement. However I think this was never going to happen even if the civilian government in Kharkov was on Russia's side, since one of the largest contingents of armored units in Ukraine is stationed in Kharkov, together with Kraken, a unit similar to Azov, and the SVD. Civilian rebellion against those units is not achievable. In Kherson it happened because it was lightly equipped territorial defense units composed of people who actually live in the area.

Given that the Ukrainian forces did not leave the Donbass area to go back and defend Kiev, which I think was the Russian expectation, getting those troops to leave then picking them out in the open field with aviation, rolling Russian forces up all the way to the Dnieper, well, when Kharkov did not fold, and the Ukrainian government did not leave the Donbass area and increased shelling of Donbass republics, Russia had to fallback to alternative plans. Rollback their forces in the North and focus on dealing with the Ukrainian forces in Donbass first.

You can call this a "failure" of Russian war planning, but the simple fact is achieving such maximalist gains was always going to be hard to happen, and Russia had plenty of backup plans, and I think the current backup plan they are following is quite far from their worst case scenario. I actually think their worst case scenario was NATO invoking Article 4 and them having to strike NATO decision centers with Kinzhal.
 
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FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
I don't believe the ukrainian government would just accept the new status quo; imo they will keep asking for stuff; can't they attack from the north?

edit: also, donetsk and the years between 2014 and 2022 show that the ukrainians are not above bombarding cities
Eastern Ukraine is entirely bound by the Vorskla to the northwest, Dnieper to the west, Sea of Azov to the south and Russian borders to east and north. The Dnieper is fast, deep and wide, they cannot attack across it without at least a river navy, but Russia controls the mouth of the Dnieper at Kherson. The Vorskla is shallower but still a water crossing and navigable i.e. is too deep to walk or drive across.

In Western Ukraine they only need to hold what they have now: Kherson plus a buffer zone of plains around it. This can reinforced with barbed wire, mines and cameras like on the Korean DMZ, backed by bases at Kherson and Crimea. Then Russia controls the entire Dnieper as it controls both its mouth and its source.
 

Zichan

Junior Member
Registered Member
Apparently the UK will be mobilizing its army to “deter Russian aggression “. British Army Chief Sir Patrick Sanders reminds the population that Russia has historically often started its military campaigns badly, but because it operates on a strategic and not a tactical level and thanks to its vast strategic depth it can recover from nearly unlimited amounts of losses and campaign setbacks to emerge stronger and still ultimately prevail.

He also made an interesting pass at China. He argues that by taking a greater share of the burden in ensuring European security, they will help the US keep their values and interests in the Indo-Pacific protected.

Scary times ahead.
 
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pmc

Major
Registered Member
Realistically, Russia doesn't have the strength to take Western Ukraine, nevermind the rest of Europe.
Eastern Ukraine manpower and resources once effectively managed will make it far easy to absorb Western Ukraine. It will be upto Western Ukrainian where they want to live. German led high cost of living or Russia led low cost of living. there is nothing in between left.
The powers in Europe will want Russia to be as close to Polish borders.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Eastern Ukraine manpower and resources once effectively managed will make it far easy to absorb Western Ukraine. It will be upto Western Ukrainian where they want to live. German led high cost of living or Russia led low cost of living. there is nothing in between left.
The powers in Europe will want Russia to be as close to Polish borders.

What is there for Russia to absorb in Eastern Ukraine? Everything is in ruins and it's not much population actually. We're now seeing estimates of up to $1.1 trillion for rebuilding Ukraine.

Plus wages and the standard of living in Germany will remain far higher than in Russia, even with higher inflation in Germany.
 

RedMetalSeadramon

Junior Member
Registered Member
What is there for Russia to absorb in Eastern Ukraine? Everything is in ruins and it's not much population actually. We're now seeing estimates of up to $1.1 trillion for rebuilding Ukraine.

Plus wages and the standard of living in Germany will remain far higher than in Russia, even with higher inflation in Germany.
Eastern Ukraine was Ukraine's most industrialized and populous region before the war, backed up by its coal reserves and steel works. Wages cannot remain high in Germany if commodity prices remains high, unless it wished to become a service only economy overnight. In a overall peace scenario, as long as Russia absorbs Ukraine its in an advantage.
 

pmc

Major
Registered Member
What is there for Russia to absorb in Eastern Ukraine? Everything is in ruins and it's not much population actually. We're now seeing estimates of up to $1.1 trillion for rebuilding Ukraine.

Plus wages and the standard of living in Germany will remain far higher than in Russia, even with higher inflation in Germany.
Eastern Ukraine agriculture land, mines, power station is worth much more than any other country beside Russia.
I said German led system. not necessary residing in Germany like real German. it will take some time for people to understand the cost of living in this kind of system going forward.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
This is a poor analysis of Russian failings. Where Russians did badly it appears to be a combination of poor tactics and poorly maintained equipment.

I think Russia could have succeeded to a far greater degree if the units had been able to deploy with their full complement of infantry conscripts.

But they ended up sending in tanks into cities without sufficient infantry to take ground. At the same time, the supply and maintenance personnel are disproportionately composed of conscripts, which meant large difficulties with resupply, along with maintaining and repairing vehicles.

I imagine Ukrainian resistance will crumble once Russian troops enter west Ukraine. Human shield tactics will no longer work. If the Ukrainian army hide in cities the Russians will have no qualms reducing the cities to rubble a la Raqqa.

The German army were proudly claiming they would fight to the death but once the Russians were on German territory they folded pretty quickly. Ukrainians only consider the west part of their territory their homeland and the eastern part full of Russian sympathisers.

Raqqa, Mariupol and Severodonetsk-Lisichansk are all small cities.

Kharkiv by itself is larger than all these cities combined, and far more difficult to isolate and surround.
Plus there are large cities like Dnipro and Zaporizhzhia which control some of the few crossings on the Donbass, so you can't avoid them.
Territorial defence units should still be able to hold these cities for months/years.

Remember that the Ukrainians will continue to be fed enough weapons and supplies to keep resisting.
 

Soldier30

Senior Member
Registered Member
The moment and result of the missile strike on the hangars in Kremenchug in Ukraine. Russian troops attacked the area of the Kremenchug plant of road machines "Kredmash" in the hangars of which, according to the Russian Ministry of Defense, foreign ammunition was stored. As a result of the missile strike, the blast wave from the detonation of ammunition damaged the Amstor shopping center located nearby, as a result of which a fire started there. Ukrainian media reported that the strike of Russian missiles was aimed at the Amstor shopping center in Kremenchug. But on the frames that you see, a crater from a rocket impact is clearly visible and it is located on the territory of the hangars of the Kremenchug plant of road machines "Kredmash".


The Russian Defense Ministry showed footage of the combat duty of the crew of the Nebo-SV radar and the combat work of the Buk-M3 air defense system. The calculation of the 1L13 "Sky-SV" radar station searches and detects targets and determines their nationality by sending a "Friend or Foe" request. Based on the results of the target's response, the radar crew makes a decision to destroy the target and transmits the data to the crew of the Buk-M3 air defense system. The detection range of fighter-type targets at high altitudes reaches 380 km, at low altitudes up to 65 km. The Russian radar "Nebo-SV" was put into service in 1986.


New weapons of Ukraine, mobile MLRS and machine guns. Recently, Aleksey Arestovich, adviser to the head of the Office of the President of Ukraine, said that a turning point would soon come at the front, but no one understood what he meant. Perhaps it was meant that new types of weapons would appear in the Ukrainian army, if I may say so about them. We have already talked about the homemade Ukrainian MLRS. Now the new MLRS installations have become more perfect, S-8 rockets are launched not from a trailer, as before, but from the body of a Mitsubishi L200 pickup truck. In addition, an installation with a large-caliber machine gun in a trailer is currently being tested, most likely this is the first prototype, apparently, it is still far from being put into production.

 
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