The War in the Ukraine

Stealthflanker said:

Yeah except Russian reason to reject that is "We cant make a difference on what you were launching"

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Exactly. But do you think the Russians care anymore?

RS-28 Sarmat for example was designed to be able to use conventional warheads.

At a time when the US put AEGIS Ashore in Poland which can fire Tomahawk missiles into Russia it is way past the time to care about that.

gelgoog said:

Exactly. But do you think the Russians care anymore?

RS-28 Sarmat for example was designed to be able to use conventional warheads.

At a time when the US put AEGIS Ashore in Poland which can fire Tomahawk missiles into Russia it is way past the time to care about that.

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They care tho for real ICBM's. New START are still around which legally binding US and Russia in terms of nuclear warheads, both sides are still in contact with eachother. What was lost is INF.

I dont think Russians would not care when US start making Conventional Trident and Sentinel.

Ukrainians claiming it was ICBM's are clearly needs their head checked.

Russians even still notify US

Stealthflanker said:

I dont think Russians would not care when US start making Conventional Trident and Sentinel.

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The US is going to put the Dark Eagle HGV into service. Their ships including the Virginia Block V will also be able to fire such missiles. There are going to be way more Virginia Block V attack subs than SSBNs.

So why should Russia care? They can spot a long range missile like Trident with their own version of SBIRS doing long distance strikes much earlier than they would for the Dark Eagle. The response time is longer.

Don't you get it? Conventional Trident and Sentinel are pointless when the US can pre-position similar systems in their bases close to Russia or China.

Because Russia does not have their own bases close to its opponents this is their alternative.

sequ said:

It's a (new) MRBM called Oreshnik:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1859646918110183637

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Footage of the arrival of the medium-range hypersonic missile system "Oreshnik" at the Yuzhmash military-industrial plant in Dnepropetrovsk


Putin announced the use of the new Oreshnik missile system in Ukraine
On November 21, the Russian Armed Forces attacked with ballistic weapons a military-industrial facility in Dnepropetrovsk, the Yuzhmash plant.
The latest medium-range missile system "Oreshnik" was used for the attack, and the target was successfully hit.
Speaking about the new complex, the Russian leader stressed that existing missile defense systems, including American ones, are not capable of intercepting the Oreshnik missile. The missiles of the complex attack targets at a speed of 2-3 km per second. At the same time, Russia will warn civilians in advance in case of using systems such as Oreshnik.................

I know that Russia was working on independent post boost vehicles for the Yars replacement. If this is a version of that and they have it already that is quite scary.
The Soviet Union had plans to build those in the late Cold War but they were never produced.

so were these warheads duds? judging by the footage they did not look like HE

They were probably kinetic impactors without explosive filler. But we will know more eventually.

This response will certainly not stop the West from continuing to attack Russia directly.

Even Iran managed to symbolically attack Israel after being provoked, but Russia responds again only in some factory in Ukraine, which completely ignores Russian threats and hits. This means that the US and UK continue to be able to directly attack Russia without suffering any casualties and have no reason to stop.

I don't doubt they'll send Tomahawks next.

They will only stop when they are truly forced to learn their lesson. To expect rational negotiations with narcissists is just wishful thinking.

Look, whatever they escalate towards, Russia can escalate as well.
The amounts of Kalibr missiles Russia has used in this conflict put to shame any use of the Tomahawk the US has done historically.

Some people still don't understand that Russia can escalate all the way through. They won't back down because this is existential for them.

quim said:

This response will certainly not stop the West from continuing to attack Russia directly.

Even Iran managed to symbolically attack Israel after being provoked, but Russia responds again only in some factory in Ukraine, which completely ignores Russian threats and hits. This means that the US and UK continue to be able to directly attack Russia without suffering any casualties and have no reason to stop.

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And Russia has no reason to let its eyes deviate from its goal, which for the moment stops at annexation of the Ukraine, not all out war with NATO.

New weapons are to facilitate a faster end to the war, increase kill rate of pro-western Ukrainians, increase enemy forced conscription and demoralization of Ukrainian fence sitters.

quim said:

I don't doubt they'll send Tomahawks next.

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And I don't doubt there will come even greater systems to Russia than Oreshnik if there is a need for it accordingly.

quim said:

They will only stop when they are truly forced to learn their lesson. To expect rational negotiations with narcissists is just wishful thinking.

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Russia is the world's no4 economy. It is not their lone job to fight and "force to learn their lesson" the no2 and no3 (if you count EU as 1 entity) at the same time. Their focus is and should remain on Ukraine.