The War in the Ukraine

Sinnavuuty

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Writer Justin Bronk from the think tank RUSI emphasized the problem for Ukraine's F-16 pilots: they will have to fly low to survive – and that impedes the use of the missiles.
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Even when the long-awaited pan-European F-16s and later planned
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and
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fighters are delivered to Ukraine, the glide bomb sorties will be very challenging to intercept regularly. When close to the frontlines, Ukrainian pilots will have to fly them at very low altitudes to avoid being detected and shot down by layered Russian short-range SA-15 ‘Tor M1/2’, medium-range SA-11/17/27 ‘Buk’ and long-range SA-21 ‘Growler’ and SA-23 ‘Gladiator\Giant’ SAM systems. As a result, the AIM-120C AMRAAM air-to-air missiles carried by the F-16 and Gripen C, and the shorter-range MICA IR/RF missiles carried by Mirage 2000-5F, will struggle to reach Russian fighters at high altitudes and high speeds 60–70 km behind the lines. This is because at such low altitudes, the missiles start out in dense air with a lot of aerodynamic drag and must climb against gravity to reach the altitudes where their targets are. As a result, by the time their rocket motors burn out after the first few seconds of flight, they have not gained nearly as much speed or altitude as if they were launched from a fighter flying in the thin air at high altitudes and at supersonic speeds, and so only have a comparatively short effective range. Only the European Meteor missile is likely to have the practical range required, and of the three fighter options now publicly discussed for Ukraine, only the Gripen C can carry and launch it.
Basically even with the F-16, Ukraine will have a long challenge in establishing a comparative advantage in the air over the VKS because of restricted flight altitude conditions on the front line. A fast-flying Sukhoi Su-34 can deliver a glide bomb at distances of up to 40 km – or up to 64 km in the case of newer, longer-range KABs. That's far enough away that Ukraine's existing air defenses won't always be able to react.

The main problem highlighted is ground-based air defenses, which make it extremely dangerous for Ukrainian combat aircraft to fly at high altitudes practically anywhere in Ukraine – but especially around 160 km from the front line, well within range of the S-400s. .

While it is possible that Ukraine is acquiring 100-mile-range AIM-120D air-to-air missiles for its F-16s, apparently allowing Ukrainian pilots to fire at Russian bombers from the edge of Russian air defense coverage – in practice, o AIM-120s will fall short of their full range.

Here is what he states:
Once they are close to the front lines, Ukrainian pilots will have to fly them at very low altitudes to avoid being detected and shot down by layered Russian [air defenses].
...
At such low altitudes, missiles start in dense air with a lot of aerodynamic drag and must climb against gravity to reach the altitudes where their targets are,” Bronk added. “As a result, by the time their rocket engines burn out after the first few seconds of flight, they have not gained as much speed or altitude as if they were launched from a fighter jet flying in thin air at high altitudes and at supersonic speeds.

Fired at low altitude, an AIM-120 potentially loses tens of km of its range, possibly putting Russian bombers out of range – unless Ukrainian pilots can somehow fly deep into Russian-controlled territory and survive long enough. to fire your missiles.

As Bronk pointed out, a possible solution to this problem is a longer-range air-to-air missile, like the European Meteor, which flies up to 200 km in optimal conditions. But the Meteor is incompatible with the F-16 – and also incompatible with the Mirage 2000-5 fighters that France promised Ukraine. But the only type of fighter that Ukraine can acquire that can also carry the Meteor is the Swedish JAS39 Gripen. Stockholm has expressed its willingness to donate surplus Gripens to Ukraine – but has also agreed to suspend any transfers until the Ukrainians have finally received their first shipments of F-16s.

Ukraine's allies are apparently worried about overwhelming the Ukrainian air force with too much new equipment, too quickly.

So if Bronk's assessment is correct, it could be some time – a year or more – before Ukraine has a fighter-missile combination that can shoot down Russia's glide bomber bombers without also exposing Ukrainian pilots to risk. extremes.

This helps explain the emphasis Ukraine has placed on attacking Russia's Sukhois and KAB arsenals while they are on the ground. Ukraine's long-range attack drones hitting the air bases that Sukhoi take off and land from is just one more alternative without exposing Ukrainian pilots and fighters to the heightened risk of interception.
 

Soldier30

Senior Member
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Russian military personnel spoke about the use of the Scorpion-M wheeled platform in Ukraine. Typically, the Scorpion-M robotic platform is used for transport purposes, but in this case, the wheeled drone was loaded with explosives and sent to a Ukrainian army stronghold. The route of movement of the robotic platform is adjusted from the FPV drone.

 

Stealthflanker

Senior Member
Registered Member
Basically even with the F-16, Ukraine will have a long challenge in establishing a comparative advantage in the air over the VKS because of restricted flight altitude conditions on the front line. A fast-flying Sukhoi Su-34 can deliver a glide bomb at distances of up to 40 km – or up to 64 km in the case of newer, longer-range KABs. That's far enough away that Ukraine's existing air defenses won't always be able to react.

The main problem highlighted is ground-based air defenses, which make it extremely dangerous for Ukrainian combat aircraft to fly at high altitudes practically anywhere in Ukraine – but especially around 160 km from the front line, well within range of the S-400s. .

While it is possible that Ukraine is acquiring 100-mile-range AIM-120D air-to-air missiles for its F-16s, apparently allowing Ukrainian pilots to fire at Russian bombers from the edge of Russian air defense coverage – in practice, o AIM-120s will fall short of their full range.

Does he really assume Russian ground based air defense is the only thing the F-16 would be facing ?

Like, even losing 2 A-50 AEW. Russians still have at least 4 available with 1 deployed to Syria. Those can guide the MiG-31 or Su-35 or Su-30's against low flying F-16's.
 

Sinnavuuty

Senior Member
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Does he really assume Russian ground based air defense is the only thing the F-16 would be facing ?

Like, even losing 2 A-50 AEW. Russians still have at least 4 available with 1 deployed to Syria. Those can guide the MiG-31 or Su-35 or Su-30's against low flying F-16's.
I don't know if they can increase the A-50U's aerial surveillance missions when the F-16s begin operating. The Russians can certainly still maintain a permanent ground alert with on-station A-50Us ready to take off as soon as a call is declared, but I don't think they can afford to increase those patrols. Considering that it needs a minimum of 3 aircraft required at any time for complete surveillance and complete situational awareness of Ukrainian airspace, assuming 8 hours on station and 24/7 surveillance, Russia needs a fleet of at least 10-12 A-50Us deployed operationally, requiring a fleet of around 14-15 A-50Us. Even reducing this by half, the Russians will still have problems because of the low number of unavailable aircraft, even disregarding any successful interception claimed by Ukraine previously.
 

tamsen_ikard

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Another view of the flag hoisting of the 98th VDV on a building in the Kanal microdistrict of Chasiv Yar.

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Russian soldier uses a TM-62 land mine like a very large grenade into a house with Ukrainian soldiers, allegedly six of whom were inside. This same guy previously used a TM-62 land like a demolition explosive on a house occupied by Ukrainian troops. This action took place somewhere in Niu York.

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Four RBK-500s on Ukrainian forces hiding in the forests.

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Kozak-2M1 trying to evacuate a Roshak Senator APC and gets hit by artillery from the 36th Army The Senator then gets destroyed by FPV drones from the 14th SPN. This in the Vremevsky sector.

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Iskander arrives at the port of Yuznhy in the Odessa region.

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Russian MoD announces capture of Sokol.

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The Ukrainian soldier who previously defected and surrendered with a whole T-64BV tank, got his Russian passport and now officially a Russian citizen.

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A downed and captured Baba Yaga in excellent condition. It will be reprogrammed to serve a new side.

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Four Ukrainian soldiers surrendered to the Mad Dogs SPN unit in the Pokrovsk sector.

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Russian flag raised in Spirne.

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FABs arriving in Ukrainian positions in Novoselivka.

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Ukrainian howitzer hit by Lancet in Novoolenivka.

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Ukrainian PVDs hit by Krasnopols from MSTA-S units belonging to Group North.

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Ukrainian S-300P gets preempted by Iskander. Footage now in YouTube.


How Ukraine still has S-300 missiles left after thousands of Russian missile attacks since 2022. They should all be depleted by now. Or does Ukraine has the ability to produce these missiles.
 

Stealthflanker

Senior Member
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How Ukraine still has S-300 missiles left after thousands of Russian missile attacks since 2022. They should all be depleted by now. Or does Ukraine has the ability to produce these missiles.

Or there were just that many in the first place. Production of 5V55 and early 48N6 did took place in Vizar missile plant. That plant was kalibrated last year but God knows how many missiles the plant managed to refurbish or even made.

and of course donated stocks.
 

Tam

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Two Ukrainian OSA AD systems intercepted by Lancets. One was a near miss but fragmentation damage may have caused the crew to abandon it.

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Bradley hit by Nona SVK likely using a Kitolov-2M laser guided shell.

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Iskander arrived on a Ukrainian AD system near Odessa, but there's some dispute on the identity of the system. One says NASAMs another says Patriot.

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Reports of an American led unit murdering Russian prisoners by a German doctor. From NYT.

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New technique in avoiding the Ukrainian draft. Pretend your British and speak with an accent.

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TOS arriving on Ukrainian positions in Torestk.

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Block by block fighting in Volchansk.

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Russians advancing towards the center of Niu York.

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Iskanders reported attacking Pavlograd where an airbase is located.

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Big gas fire in Crimea but caused by a accident.

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M777 gets taken out by a MSTA-B belong to Group North.

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Same MSTA-B takes out a Ukrainian 120mm mortar in the northern front.

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Another Abrams tank is reported destroyed in the Avdeyevka-Pokrovsk sector.

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Two Ukrainian vehicles hit mines in the Kharkhiv front, one near Liptsy and another near Volchansk.

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FABs arriving on Ukrainian positions in the Kharkhiv front.

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Krasnopol takes out a Ukrainian MSTA-B in the Volchansk sector.

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Lancet takes out a Krab in the Kharkhiv front.

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Two Ukrainian Gvozdika SPG taken out by Lancet strikes also in the Volchansk sector.

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British AS-90 SPG found destroyed.

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Lancet from Group North takes out French CAESAR SPG.

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