The War in the Ukraine

The US decided to supply Ukraine with cluster ammunitions. They basically chose a flight profile that would fly over civilian areas on a Sunday when people are at the beach. And shit happens.

As for why they supply Ukraine with a limited resource (ATACMS) which was supposed to be kept in case of confrontation with China. It is pretty simple. The PrSM, the ATACMS replacement, entered production.

Maikeru said:

And the Russian wasted useful(?) troops to operate it as well, who fortunately for them were captured. Ukraine can replace the drones a lot quicker than Russia can train new troops. Also the logistics required to get this heap of junk to the front are the same as for a T90M.

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They are not making these turtle tanks in some factory and shipping them to the front. They are taking damaged tanks that would be write-offs normally and doing field mods to make them into turtle tanks.

In cases where the turret and/or gun are damaged, they probably just stripped out all ammo to increase survivability and may not even bother with crew other than the driver.

Also, as with most combat calculations, the opportunity cost isn’t what the price of the munitions but what it would have hit otherwise. In that sense the Russians are getting a great trade baiting the Ukrainians to rain blows against their purpose made punching bag tanks while their T90s and other more valuable assets goes unmolested.

Does it suck to pull the short straw and have to crew the turtle tank? Absolutely, but it’s far better than the NATO approach of ‘we all die together in one giant glorious useless virtue signalling charge of the new light brigade’.

sheogorath said:

As mentioned, they try to saturate the area as much as possible, with what seems increasingly diminishing returns on a weapon system that isn't made anymore.

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Actually, it appears that for a few years now new atacms have been made and delivered to us army.

Totoro said:

Actually, it appears that for a few years now new atacms have been made and delivered to us army.

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These aren't complete newbuilts, though. Its the upgrade of old initial stocks to the M57 variant. And while 2017 might seem recent, thats almost 10 years ago.


Pro-Ukr accounts claim the target was an old Soviet deep space and satellite tracking station. They claim it was part of Russia's nuclear early warning network since the annexation in 2014, because apparently you do that with with dishes designed to send commands for Mars and Venus missions, of course. Not including the fact that the thing was mostly abandoned since the fall of the USSR being in Ukranian hands.

Also the "near Yepatova" is doing a lot of heavy lifting, too considering its more than 10km away from the city. Wouldn't be the first time

Ukrainian transport attacked by FPV drones from the 38th.


Odessa gets Kalibrated. A large warehouse is in flames.


Better footage for a FAB-1500 strike on Ukrainian positions in Liptsy followed by a FAB-3000.


That warehouse in Odessa is burning bad. Housing ammunition and weapons perhaps.



Secondary explosions are heard in the Odessa warehouse hit, which strongly indicates ammunition and weapons.


More FAB or KAB arrivals on Ukrainian locations.


ODAB-500 with UMPK hits the temporary deployment points of the AFU 92nd Brigade in the Kharkhiv region.


Lancet takes out a Ukrainian 120mm mortar system.


Captured rifles from the 83rd Air Assault Brigade of the AFU in Volchansk.


TOS-2 in the Avdeyevka Ochertino sector. Or Pokrovsk.


Ukrainian counterbattery radar gets taken out by Lancet in the northern front.


VT-40 drone attacks Bradley. Feed cut out by EW, so fate is unknown but last course is straight on to the Bradley.


Ka-52M firing NARS at Ukrainian positions in the Volchansk area.


Urozhayne under heavy NARS and MLRS fire.


FPV drone on track to hit a Ukrainian transport by the Beaver detachment.


PZH2000 hit by Lancet in the northern front.


Compilation of FAB attacks. FABs arrive on Ukrainian positions in the right bank of the Dniepr.


FAB-3000 hit on Liptsy. Part of the footage that shows an earlier FAB-1500 strike. The FAB-3000 is still in a combat test phase.


Artillery and Krasnopol strikes in the Kharkhiv front. Ukrainians would usually retreat and hide in forest patches, hence Russian artillery, bombs and MLRS often target forest areas.

sheogorath said:

These aren't complete newbuilts, though. Its the upgrade of old initial stocks to the M57 variant.

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That article explicity says: concurrently with new builds, army also signed contracts for those refurbishments of older missiles.

Totoro said:

That article explicity says: concurrently with new builds, army also signed contracts for those refurbishments of older missiles.

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There was a following article pointing out that the newbuilts werent forthcoming anymore.



Ukranian government says there is no such thing as civilians in Crimea.

sheogorath said:

These aren't complete newbuilts, though. Its the upgrade of old initial stocks to the M57 variant. And while 2017 might seem recent, thats almost 10 years ago.


Pro-Ukr accounts claim the target was an old Soviet deep space and satellite tracking station. They claim it was part of Russia's nuclear early warning network since the annexation in 2014, because apparently you do that with with dishes designed to send commands for Mars and Venus missions, of course. Not including the fact that the thing was mostly abandoned since the fall of the USSR being in Ukranian hands.

Also the "near Yepatova" is doing a lot of heavy lifting, too considering its more than 10km away from the city. Wouldn't be the first time

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1804975070109941925

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Looks like this was a target US wanted taken out and of course Ukraine said yes

Sheleah said:

However, the attack did not go directly to the beach, but rather the fragments that fell on the beach were the result of an alleged interception... Talking about "terrorism" in this case is nothing more than vulgar propaganda

Furthermore, it must be taken into account that the Uchkuevka beach is 800 meters from the 1096th anti-aircraft missile regiment of the Black Sea Fleet, so perhaps the attack was aimed at a legitimate military target.

Is this type of regiment a military objective? Yes.

Is it negligent not to close a beach that is less than 1km from a legitimate military objective to the public (unsuspecting tourists) during a war, even more so when several attacks have been carried out recently? Yes, it is negligent.

It has been expressed on Russian channels that the anti-aircraft warning system DID NOT WORK...

Is it military negligence that anti-aircraft warning systems do not work in a "tourist" area in the middle of a war? Yes, it is negligence

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So did the air defense work and hence claims that Ukraine deliberately attacked civilians are "nothing more than vulgar propaganda", or the air defense "DID NOT WORK" and hence Ukraine is indeed implicated in terrorism?

Pick one.

It's tragic to me that instead of using limited firepower to save the soldiers on the front by defeating the Russian artillery and planes bombing them non stop, AFU would rather commit terrorism or try to hit old tug boats and ferries.

In the end, dozens of nameless AFU have died and will keep dying for every wounded civilian or vandalized car... A pointless, prolonged slaughter of the whole Ukrainian fighting age population, fueled only by the west continuing to force them to fight over pointless objectives.

Index said:

So did the air defense work and hence claims that Ukraine deliberately attacked civilians are "nothing more than vulgar propaganda", or the air defense "DID NOT WORK" and hence Ukraine is indeed implicated in terrorism?

Pick one.

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It is unfortunate that in a forum where there is at least basic knowledge of military topics, we have to explain such basic things, so that some stubborn people can understand:

If the defense intercepts a missile, its remains are scattered in many places, especially if the interception is achieved at low altitude... What anyone can understand is that the remains of an interception do not fall precisely on the attacked target. The objective could well have been the hundreds of military objectives that in Crimea and the remains fell on a beach carelessly congested by tourists... This beach, furthermore, located less than 1km from a military unit, which is perfectly a war objective

There are examples in both Russia and Ukraine, but the unknowledgable fans of both sides will always prefer to talk about "terrorism"

Warning: There is no need to mock or jeer at people by calling them fanatics or pathetic.