The War in the Ukraine

Sheleah

Junior Member
Registered Member
The US was banking on Ukraine to weaken Russia, but all they did was make Russia stronger, richer, gave them invaluable combat experience, increased their MIC production capacity to a point where it is higher than the entire production capacity of the West. Lastly, Russia has now tested all its nuclear weapons delivery systems successfully, tactical and strategic.

The more you repeat it, you don't make it true... Russia is what it is, a country at war that tries to disguise its numbers and sells the idea that it is only fighting with 10% of its capabilities, when, except for its Nuclear warheads have used all offensive systems to attack points in Ukraine....

The West can produce more than Russia, it's just a matter of focusing the productive system on a war economy, like Russia does... And they haven't even seen the need to do it yet...

You insist on telling lies that only yourself and another couple of fanatics believe,... Since the fall of the USSR, the new Russian Federation does not have the economic (technological) power to counteract the technological evolution of the West, the way countering that Western technological power has been through a "propagandistic" conglomerate, where Westerners even believed that Russia was a great military power and would destroy Ukraine in a week... And no, fighting Ukraine alone for a week and a couple of months, The Russians could not take control of a country in institutional decay and civil war like Ukraine... We began to see that Russia is a giant with feet of clay

Analyze how nearly 80% of these Russian defense companies are subsidiaries, work with Licenses or are part of Western Business Groups, at least until the sanctions date of 2023..... Analyze why we do not see large productions of Armatas tanks, of S-400, of S-500, of Su-35S or of Su-57, and instead, its "large production" is based on restoring stored equipment, with electronics and technology far from being modern .... And the few new systems that produce with decent technology, do so in small quantities solely to show on their propaganda devices

A simple example taken from a video from a Russian Kamaz factory, for truck and armored engines... We have everything from machinery, engineering software to industrial robots, of Western origin, and a few Turkish things



After the sanctions, why is Russia dedicated to restoring instead of producing new and technological projects?... Furthermore, many of them are years behind schedule... Is that Russian Industrial power?... They are in a war economy, and they produce more artillery than the West (not without first having to buy from North Korea or Iran), but if they wanted to and put their industries in a state of war and turned to producing artillery, do not doubt that they would produce many times more than Russia.... Stop lying to yourself
 

iBBz

Junior Member
Registered Member
The West can produce more than Russia, it's just a matter of focusing the productive system on a war economy, like Russia does... And they haven't even seen the need to do it yet...
This cannot be proven and can be argued against as the situation Ukraine is deteriorating further and further. You could not provide me with single piece of evidence that Russia is running a war economy. The last report I read states that Russia is running an MIC at 8.7% GDP. We know it is not running a war economy or undergoing a full scale mobilization. We know life is very normal inside of Russia. We know the people inside Russia are free to spend their money on anything they want to buy, run their private businesses freely, travel, post on social media, debate freely etc. We know their store shelves are fully stocked and there are hundreds of channels out there on social media that walk through Russian cities to demonstrate how calm and quiet the Russian lives are. Some famous figures out there such as Alex Christoforu, Tucker Carlson, and Scott Ritter have toured Russia to demonstrate the this fact. We know Ukraine is kidnapping people off the streets, some too young, some too old. We also know Ukrainian cities constantly receive strikes, but Russian cities on the other hand, are not. We know Russians volunteer to join the conflict. We have no videos of Russians being abducted, beaten up, and thrown into battle against their wishes. I could go on and on about the differences between the two, but you get my point.

You insist on telling lies that only yourself and another couple of fanatics believe,... Since the fall of the USSR, the new Russian Federation does not have the economic (technological) power to counteract the technological evolution of the West, the way countering that Western technological power has been through a "propagandistic" conglomerate, where Westerners even believed that Russia was a great military power and would destroy Ukraine in a week... And no, fighting Ukraine alone for a week and a couple of months, The Russians could not take control of a country in institutional decay and civil war like Ukraine... We began to see that Russia is a giant with feet of clay

Analyze how nearly 80% of these Russian defense companies are subsidiaries, work with Licenses or are part of Western Business Groups, at least until the sanctions date of 2023..... Analyze why we do not see large productions of Armatas tanks, of S-400, of S-500, of Su-35S or of Su-57, and instead, its "large production" is based on restoring stored equipment, with electronics and technology far from being modern .... And the few new systems that produce with decent technology, do so in small quantities solely to show on their propaganda devices

A simple example taken from a video from a Russian Kamaz factory, for truck and armored engines... We have everything from machinery, engineering software to industrial robots, of Western origin, and a few Turkish things


After the sanctions, why is Russia dedicated to restoring instead of producing new and technological projects?... Furthermore, many of them are years behind schedule... Is that Russian Industrial power?... They are in a war economy, and they produce more artillery than the West (not without first having to buy from North Korea or Iran), but if they wanted to and put their industries in a state of war and turned to producing artillery, do not doubt that they would produce many times more than Russia.... Stop lying to yourself

I am neither a propagandist nor a liar or a fanatic. I watch news and read reports like any other human being and I do not make unverifiable claims. Russia is a nuclear power that has a space industry as old as space industries go. Russia produces everything from cars to ships, planes, satellites, silicone chips, CNC machines including 5-axis and 3D modelling software. You name it, they make it. Our friend @gelgoog has made numerous posts regarding how technologically advanced Russia is. You can check these posts out and verify them for yourself at the Russian military news, reports, data, etc. thread. I am sure you will be impressed.

Russia is testing the T-14 on the battlefield to my understanding, but they are already in a conflict, and they want to go with the most efficient path in order to achieve victory, so mass producing the Armata and developing new tactics to use them before verifying the tech is not a good idea at all. Instead, the Russian MOD opt to modernize old tanks by adding all the bells and whistles such as optical suites, modern FCS, more powerful engines, thermal sights, ERA etc. The old tanks end up being just as good as the new ones and can be produced much faster and for less money since the tanks and the infrastructure already exist. This is how things work when you are not running a for profit privatized MIC.

The Russian MOD still receives new batches of Su-35, Su-34, and Su-57. We don't know how many as these numbers are not published for obvious reasons. We know the Su-57 has a new engine, the Izdilye-30, that is being tested and is nearing mass production. We know Russia is constructing many ships, small and large, including around 6 of the new Admiral Gorshkov frigate variants last time I checked, maybe even more by now.

We know from Western report Russia produces millions of shells per year. Here is a quick example.

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I used a Western example intentionally since you don't believe Russian reports. The article states that the US aims to produce 100,000 shells by the end of 2025, while Russia currently produces between 3 to 4.5 million per year, so even by 2025, the US will not even come close to the Russian production numbers of today. It is worth mentioning that I have read more articles regarding Russian production numbers being closer to 7 million shells annually, but I don't want to spend too much time looking for these articles.

You make a point about projects not being on time, but this is not sufficient enough to discredit the Russian MIC. These are complicated projects and Russia is a massive country busy with a conflict and sanctions and reconfiguration of economy from West to East, so delayed projects are a normal side effect. Many MIC projects worldwide end up being delayed and overbudget.

The equipment in the video you posted prove nothing other than the fact that Russia was a good paying customer that the West has lost. I'm sure China can supply all these equipment should Russia find itself unable to meet the demand domestically.

There is nothing wrong with Russia buying equipment from allies and strengthening ties with them while stockpiling ammunitions just in case the conflict escalates into a regional or even a world war. Ukraine has received donations of over 500bn USD worth of equipment from over 50 countries, so why can't Russia purchase equipment from its allies? Why is that forbidden?

We recently had the IMF upgrade the Russian economy to the 4th place behind India and ahead of Japan. Here is the article

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You can also read the IMF report if you have that much time on your hand, but the Russian economy is far more successful than you think.

So to summarize, I made no claims I can't back up and I used Western sources here just so you are satisfied. Should you feel like it, you can do more research on your own time.
 

Index

Junior Member
Registered Member
I have no idea, but constantly escalating and completely cutting off comms is a recipe for disaster.

The problem is the West think Russia is a joke. It is just one escalation after another. The Russian MOD might feel like they need to do something outlandish in order to be taken seriously. The situation is too volatile right now. I hope you are right. God help us if you are not.
The Russian strategy is to run the west out of Ukrainians, and the west has shown no real counterplay against that.

Faced with mounting losses, the west would instead invent a bunch of "red lines" that they can "cross" in order to look good at home when in reality the only red line Russia put down was that if NATO attacks Russia or Belarus, Russia will strike the offending troops. And that's what they do already, giving extra priority to NATO "mercs" whenever possible.
The more you repeat it, you don't make it true... Russia is what it is, a country at war that tries to disguise its numbers and sells the idea that it is only fighting with 10% of its capabilities, when, except for its Nuclear warheads have used all offensive systems to attack points in Ukraine....

The West can produce more than Russia, it's just a matter of focusing the productive system on a war economy, like Russia does... And they haven't even seen the need to do it yet...

You insist on telling lies that only yourself and another couple of fanatics believe,... Since the fall of the USSR, the new Russian Federation does not have the economic (technological) power to counteract the technological evolution of the West, the way countering that Western technological power has been through a "propagandistic" conglomerate, where Westerners even believed that Russia was a great military power and would destroy Ukraine in a week... And no, fighting Ukraine alone for a week and a couple of months, The Russians could not take control of a country in institutional decay and civil war like Ukraine... We began to see that Russia is a giant with feet of clay
So on one hand, the west brags that Ukraine has an over million man army, equipped with "nato style tactics", yet it honestly "expected" said army to be crushed in a week, if Russia did not crush it in a week, it would be "behind schedule"? Don't fall for blatant propaganda meant to placate the lowest denominator among the west.
Analyze how nearly 80% of these Russian defense companies are subsidiaries, work with Licenses or are part of Western Business Groups, at least until the sanctions date of 2023..... Analyze why we do not see large productions of Armatas tanks, of S-400, of S-500, of Su-35S or of Su-57, and instead, its "large production" is based on restoring stored equipment, with electronics and technology far from being modern .... And the few new systems that produce with decent technology, do so in small quantities solely to show on their propaganda devices

A simple example taken from a video from a Russian Kamaz factory, for truck and armored engines... We have everything from machinery, engineering software to industrial robots, of Western origin, and a few Turkish things



After the sanctions, why is Russia dedicated to restoring instead of producing new and technological projects?... Furthermore, many of them are years behind schedule... Is that Russian Industrial power?... They are in a war economy, and they produce more artillery than the West (not without first having to buy from North Korea or Iran)
So your cope is that the whole west with gdp around the size of about China + Russia can *hypothetically* produce more than Russia alone?

Way to state the obvious, but well, it's a good thing for Russia then that the warlike West is in the habit of picking fights with more than just Russia.

Why should Russia not purchase weapons from allies who more likely than not sell systems at subsidised prices because they want to see them used on the enemy?

Define what "war economy" means when Russia so far is performing better than any EU economy since the conflict started. The USSR used to have 10-14% gdp defense spending through all it's existence.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
This is me categorizing what kind of targets are being hit based on region.


Kharkhiv = Ammo depots, brigade level headquarters, barracks, foreign merc residences.

Dnipropetrovsk = Electric power plants, air fields, logistics centers, railway stations, drone manufacturing plants.

Lviv = Training centers, logistical centers, power plants, drone manufacturing plants.

Odessa = Marine drone manufacturing centers and storage, foreign advisers related to the first (this one has been there for some time), ammo depots, port infrastructure.

If you see a column of smoke rising from the city and all I say is missile strike arrives in Odessa, you get what I mean. This happens repeatedly all the time.

M1 Abrams getting the cope cage and Soviet Kontakt treatment. Ultimate rebuke to the internet bloggers that laught at these things. Thumbs up to the practical people that realize the Abrams ain't going to survive without the cope treatment. Leopards have been getting them too.


I didn't pose the original of this due to the human casualties. This however is a heavily digitized censored version. So this Russian soldier has a Go Pro and filming while he was assaulting trenches, throwing grenades and shooting his gun. Among the killed was a person who has Norwegian markings in his uniform, which this version of the video didn't say but was visible in the original.


T-80BVM with a KMT-7 mine trawl went through a Ukrainian minefield, took ten hits but kept on bossing.


In this footage, Ukrainian UAV operators were caught in the act of unloading UAVs from their pick out to their hideout shelter. The Russians waited until all the UAVs are stored and the operators all settled in the hideout before sending an FPV drone express delivery.

 

Santamaria

Junior Member
Registered Member
The more you repeat it, you don't make it true... Russia is what it is, a country at war that tries to disguise its numbers and sells the idea that it is only fighting with 10% of its capabilities, when, except for its Nuclear warheads have used all offensive systems to attack points in Ukraine....

The West can produce more than Russia, it's just a matter of focusing the productive system on a war economy, like Russia does... And they haven't even seen the need to do it yet...

You insist on telling lies that only yourself and another couple of fanatics believe,... Since the fall of the USSR, the new Russian Federation does not have the economic (technological) power to counteract the technological evolution of the West, the way countering that Western technological power has been through a "propagandistic" conglomerate, where Westerners even believed that Russia was a great military power and would destroy Ukraine in a week... And no, fighting Ukraine alone for a week and a couple of months, The Russians could not take control of a country in institutional decay and civil war like Ukraine... We began to see that Russia is a giant with feet of clay

Analyze how nearly 80% of these Russian defense companies are subsidiaries, work with Licenses or are part of Western Business Groups, at least until the sanctions date of 2023..... Analyze why we do not see large productions of Armatas tanks, of S-400, of S-500, of Su-35S or of Su-57, and instead, its "large production" is based on restoring stored equipment, with electronics and technology far from being modern .... And the few new systems that produce with decent technology, do so in small quantities solely to show on their propaganda devices

A simple example taken from a video from a Russian Kamaz factory, for truck and armored engines... We have everything from machinery, engineering software to industrial robots, of Western origin, and a few Turkish things



After the sanctions, why is Russia dedicated to restoring instead of producing new and technological projects?... Furthermore, many of them are years behind schedule... Is that Russian Industrial power?... They are in a war economy, and they produce more artillery than the West (not without first having to buy from North Korea or Iran), but if they wanted to and put their industries in a state of war and turned to producing artillery, do not doubt that they would produce many times more than Russia.... Stop lying to yourself
I don't know why I even loose my time answering you but the most you repeat your claims the most laughable they are:

1 - I showed real numbers to demonstrate that Ukraine have destroyed less than 4% of the S400 of Russia and even smaller percentage of the S300 -> you simply ignore it and continue your delusions about Ukraine preparing ground for F16

2 - Your pattern, is continuously repeat Ukrainian propaganda here without adding nothing to it, trying to pass anectotical events as systematic events.

3 - All your claims are all non numerical and subjective, like, the West can produce more than Russia when it is simply untrue and it is showed in the production numbers of shells and sytems. It is simply ridiculous how you attack the Armatas production while it is produced in higher numbers than any western tank in this moment. It is like, do you even live in the real world?
Do you even know that the titaniunm and alluminium that aerospace industry use in the West come from Russia? How the hell you are going to increase production, do you think they will sell it to you?
When even in precious F35 there are pieces coming from China.
They, as well as China, laugh at the sheer incompence of Western leaders and western delusional people like you that are not able even to follow a supply chain in a map.

4 - Statements like "Russian defense companies are subsidiaries working with Western system" or even worse, part of Western groups are demential. Like if Russian MIC has not been under sanctions for decades. What the hell you are talking about? . You are basically equal to a terraplanist in the absurdness of your statements.

5 - Laughable video pretending that Russian MIC is backwards becuase there is one guy manually operating somehting when that is basically done in all MICs and you can find same kind of videos of US or German facilities.

6 - You repeat tipical lies about crushing Ukraine in one week and bla bla, and using it as justification to say that Russia is weak. Following thisidiocy was the US a paper tiger because the war in Vietnam took them 10 years? And vietnam was a far more backward country than Ukraine, with less military tradition and without military industrial complex.

7 - You ignore all militar, economical and technological developments of the last 30 years. We are not living in 1991. To think that the West can increase arm production to any significant level when basically all manufacture has been exported to China in the last 30 years just show your level.
Although this is not surprising because anytime you see any of that tech working you say that the target was a decoy.

8 - Russia is stronger than before 2022. All economical data ( PMI, to GDP growth, real wages..) are very positive. All data of military production shows it increasing several times. They have launched dozens of military satellite to reduce their gaps in ISR
And they have succesfully replace western customers and providers for Chinese/ Indians... without suffereing a inch in their trade balance. This simply strenghen them strategically
As a comparison all economical data from the EU is negative, and military production is stagnant.
Only a person who does not read can denay this.

9 - Not only Russia is stronger but China has grown far stronger in this 2 years while the West burn resources and credibility. Chinese are closing tech breach in microelectronics in real time, smashing western automotive industries, smashing western naval industry, smashing literally every little advantage the west had.
And even more. The US papers anaylised in 2022 that they have a window of 5 years to force a war against China and win int he pacific. Guess what, we are almost in 2025 and all the West resources, intelligence and analysis is tramped in Ukraine, and loosing.

As a overview, you are completily clueless about everything in this war, both in the battlefield, in the economical sphere and in the global sphere

I blame people like you of the current disaster we are heading in the West, spending precious resources in unwinable endevours. For people like you a global system that provided us with cheap resources is destroyed.
And not only that, resources that should be urgently invested the western economies are wasted and burned in Ukraine.
Just the EU has provided 150 billion to Ukraine while the investment in infrastructure in the EU is a 25% of the investment in 2008.
While the train infrastructure in Germany has become the shitiest and trains are delayed eveyday, while the french nuclear power plant is aging and each year pass more time in reparation, while the UK is in such a terrible state. And this not to speak of Italy, Greece, Spain...

But whatever, continue telling lies, ignoring numbers and promoting this "victorius west and ukraine" leitmotiv.
 

Sinnavuuty

Senior Member
Registered Member
Not disturbing at all. Seems pretty normal to me tbh.

You hit early warning radars, they should be thankful that Russia doesn't simply launch its nukes against them as these radars are part of its early warning system against a nuclear attack.
Nuclear attack is more likely now than it was two years ago. How is this not disturbing?
I used a Western example intentionally since you don't believe Russian reports. The article states that the US aims to produce 100,000 shells by the end of 2025, while Russia currently produces between 3 to 4.5 million per year, so even by 2025, the US will not even come close to the Russian production numbers of today. It is worth mentioning that I have read more articles regarding Russian production numbers being closer to 7 million shells annually, but I don't want to spend too much time looking for these articles.
Do you have any sources to support this argument?
 

Index

Junior Member
Registered Member
Nuclear attack is more likely now than it was two years ago. How is this not disturbing?
All out nuclear attack is bad for obvious reasons (fallout, starting potential nuclear ww3), but at this point, the use of just a few low yield nukes over tactical positions would not have any repercussions, neither globally or in Russia itself.

Not saying Russia would be anywhere close to using them now, but there's no sign of credible pushback if they did. Ukraine doesn't have treaty allies and no nukes of its own.
 
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