The War in the Ukraine

tankphobia

Senior Member
Registered Member
What is the effect of recent Ukranian strikes on Russian refining capacity, there seems to have been strikes on facilities of up to combined 500k bbl/day of refining capacity.

The strikes are preformed by slowoving drones which are highly targeted, appears to be aiming for maximum damage such as distillation columns.

There's basically no air defence positioned at the sites other than small arms and locations are far to the rear.(8-900km from Ukranian border)

 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
What is the effect of recent Ukranian strikes on Russian refining capacity, there seems to have been strikes on facilities of up to combined 500k bbl/day of refining capacity.

The strikes are preformed by slowoving drones which are highly targeted, appears to be aiming for maximum damage such as distillation columns.

There's basically no air defence positioned at the sites other than small arms and locations are far to the rear.(8-900km from Ukranian border)


Given the fact Russian-EU oil trade was running at 40-45m bbl per week before the invasion, I don’t think the loss of 3.5m bbl production per week is really not an issue since the Russians would have ample idle capacity they can bring online quickly to offset the loss. Also, as the Ukrainians themselves know full well, oil refineries are hard targets, built tough and difficult to kill. The Russians will repair the damage quickly enough. The Russian economy is reliant on oil revenue. If they were seriously vulnerable, the Ukrainians would have been hitting them from the get go and consistently, not two years in. These attacks are more of the same from Ukraine now. Showy media focused with limited practical value.
 

Sinnavuuty

Senior Member
Registered Member
Given the fact Russian-EU oil trade was running at 40-45m bbl per week before the invasion, I don’t think the loss of 3.5m bbl production per week is really not an issue since the Russians would have ample idle capacity they can bring online quickly to offset the loss. Also, as the Ukrainians themselves know full well, oil refineries are hard targets, built tough and difficult to kill. The Russians will repair the damage quickly enough. The Russian economy is reliant on oil revenue. If they were seriously vulnerable, the Ukrainians would have been hitting them from the get go and consistently, not two years in. These attacks are more of the same from Ukraine now. Showy media focused with limited practical value.
Russia has 44 refineries in 2022. It is entirely possible for Ukraine to maintain pressure like this, which could cause serious problems for the Russians.

They produce 7 million barrels/day. And they are already producing high levels of diesel for the war. In 2022 there was only an excess of 900 thousand barrels per day. (production 7 million/day). Some of these refineries obviously need to undergo maintenance every X months, otherwise they risk having serious problems.

So if the Ukrainian bombing campaign continues, things could start to get problematic for Russia.

The current campaign differs from the 2022-2023 campaign because now the focus has been on distillation and production towers. And no more storage tanks.

Furthermore, if Ukraine continues to destroy 5 or more distillation towers per month, they have real power to destroy the Russian refining industry. Currently they are destroying much more than that. Apart from other secondary targets.

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A simple refinery to produce 100 thousand barrels/day. It costs 3 billion dollars. No sanctions obviously. Russian production today is 7 million barrels/day.

The manufacturing time for a distillation tower + Installation is in the range of 1 year. I know of one of a company that lost its tower due to a fire that found this 1 year unacceptable.
After appealing to the Americans, the time was reduced to 6 months. He also found it unacceptable. We traveled the world to speed up the process. They reduced it to an absurd cost for 3 months.
And this without sanctions and opening your wallet to jump the queue and everything else. Therefore, even in the best case scenario, Russia will have problems replacing certain parts of its refineries. And it is prohibitive to repair dozens of refineries.

Added to the fact that they need to stop from time to time to clean and maintain the tower. Something that you can't escape because otherwise the tower will break. Here is a recipe for the disaster that Russia would need to resolve. If this is not resolved, the increase in fuel prices will affect the price of all products that use gasoline directly and/or indirectly. From heating to food. And inflation will increase.

Russia is really suffering from these attacks. The problem itself is that even if they contain anti-aircraft protection measures in the refineries, the Ukrainians are attacking with swarms of drones that will saturate the systems, probably due to Ukraine's greater drone production capabilities and deliveries from the West that were promised.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
The report is a bit of mishmash. The Soviets did have CNC machines. But because the Soviets were almost a decade behind the West in terms of computer technology they only started mass manufacturing CNC tools in the 1980s after they mass produced the Elektronika-NC control module. The design tools and environment lagged quite a lot. You did CAD in the Soviet Union on minicomputers. PDP-11 compatibles.

The Soviets were way behind in regards to modern workstations in the late 1980s. They had no real mass production equivalent to a Sun workstation for example. So CAD software development lagged quite a lot. Another huge choke point was the lag in DRAM technology. The Soviets were still mostly making 64 Kbit DRAM chips at the point of collapse, and the most advanced Comecon DRAM chips from Eastern Germany were 256 Kbit. So even if a proper CPU existed you wouldn't have enough cheap memory to run graphical workstation applications on a mass produced machine.

When the collapse of the Soviet Union happened, the country massively switched to buying Western PC compatibles to bridge the gap in performance with regards to workstations and personal computers. The Western CAD software which ran on them was optimized to work with Western tools. The Soviet consumer goods industry collapsed as people started consuming imported consumer goods. And so a large chunk of Soviet industrial production vanished. Of what could be exported most of it was military gear which was still competitive in the world market, part of those funds were used to acquire Western tools and train experts to use them abroad.

The article seems to be like a decade behind the trends in both Russia and China though. Russia does have CAD/CAM software. They have KOMPAS-3D as a CAD software solution and there are CAM modules for it which can control CNC machines.
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The naval shipyards already use KOMPAS-3D. The naval design bureaus are moving to it. The Russian government has a program to move the entire aerospace sector to KOMPAS-3D as well. For example the PD-35 engine was already partially designed with KOMPAS-3D and the PD-8V is going to be fully designed with it.
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With the Western tool companies leaving the Russian market tool production has also been booming. There are Russian producers for most of the required equipment unlike what the article says. They just lack production capacity. Russia has several producers of computer controlled laser cutting tools and metal 3D printing tools. Kalashnikov produces 5-axis CNC machines. Sterlitamak Machine Tool Enterprise and others part of STAN produce CNC lathe and milling tools. The machine tool plant formerly owned by DMG Mori also is now under control of its Russian employees and has been developing a new lineup in collaboration with Chinese tools producers. Given their large sales network in Russia they will probably quickly expand their sales.
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As for the supposed "lack of quality" of Chinese CNC machines. Again these "analysts" are like a decade behind the times. You can tell this by how quickly Russia has been moving their machine tool imports from European to Far Eastern suppliers. With the majority of tools currently being bought from China. It is not surprising that a lot of existing facilities still use Western tools. Back when Chinese tools were not competitive. Russian tools still lacked variety and production volume. Well that isn't the case anymore.
 
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Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Mi-28NM in action using Vikhr taking out Ukrainian vehicles. I think all these attacks are related to the Belgorod incursion

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Baba Yaga gets shot down.

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Ukrainian SPG hidden in the forest gets knocked out by counterbattery. In Yuzhno Donetsk direction.

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Caught in CCTV camera, a FAB lands in Mirnograd.

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Ukrainian 82mm mortar gets knocked out in Novomikhailovka.

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RBC-500 cluster bomb arriving in a village in the Kharkhiv region.

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M113 gets taken out by mortar, after spotted and artillery adjusted by drone.

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A strike on a Ukrainian field ammo depot.

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Captured Leopard 2A6 and two M2A2 Bradley inspected by Russian soldiers in Stepove in the Avdeyevka area before being towed away.

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Explosions in Odessa after Geran attacks.

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Explosions reported in military airfield in the city of Priluki in the Chernihiv region.

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Ukraine running out of air defense missiles.

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Artillery strikes on Ukrainian positions in Berestova by the 123rd Brigade.

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Ukrainian military warehouses gets wiped out by strikes in the Artemovosk front.

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Ukrainian command post or control point gets hit by a FAB-500 in Novoselka.

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AGM-88 failed to work. No wonder, it's expired munition since 1995.

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Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
You can see something hit this Ukrainian RM-70 MLRS, possibly a Tornado-S rocket, completely taking out the MLRS, which was used to shell Belgorod civilian areas.

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Another RM-70 gets wiped out by a missile possibly a Tornado-S.

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Ukrainian Mi-24 helicopter, allegedly carrying 20 personnel,, shot down by the Russians using MANPADS. This in the Sumy region.

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Krasnopol taking out Ukrainian hideouts in the Avdeyevka front.

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Rocket attack, either Iskander or Tornado-S, hitting Hotel 'Sputnik' in the Volchansk town in the Kharkhiv region. Hotels are where foreign advisers and mercenaries are housed.

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M109 in the Artemovosk front gets knocked out by counterbattery.

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Ukrainian mortar position gets knocked out by a Krasnopol from the 238th Artillery Brigade.

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FABs hit Ukrainian positions near Verbove.

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Ukrainian field ammo depot destroyed in Urozhayne.

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FABs and artillery hit Ukrainian positions in Popivka.

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Footage that show the first Abrams getting knocked out.

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Precision strike on a Ukrainian hideout in Kherson.

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PakistaniDragon

New Member
Registered Member
M777 gets hit by Lancet in Zaporozhye, making it the 142nd confirmed loss of the M777.

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Previously unreleased footage of an M777 destroyed by counterbattery in Avdiivka last year makes this the 143rd confirmed kill.

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According to a
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report Ukraine received a total of 170 M777s from US, Canada and Australia.
 
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