The War in the Ukraine

enroger

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While some Ukrainian forces exhibit unorganized or even chaotic behavior (like asking for reinforcement/spplies on TikTok, being asked to fight tanks with AK, being told to perform impossible/nonsensible orders......), it's likely those are just lower tiered units with limited support that cannot be expected to hold against Russian offense for long while suffering massive casualty.

Turns out the foreign volunteers are consistently being assigned to those lower tiered units
 

Weaasel

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Possible combat underway at Sumy Oblast. Not sure what to make of this, if true then attack towards Chernihiv?
I doubt that there will be any thrust from Sumy in the direction of Chernihiv. The Russians have learned the very hard way not to rush vehicles and infantry ahead of supplies and without adequate air support in heavily forested territory where they do not already have significant material and human infrastructure support (unlike in Donbass). If there is to be any attack on Chernihiv City it will come from the Bryansk Oblast or Belarus.
 

SampanViking

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I doubt that there will be any thrust from Sumy in the direction of Chernihiv. The Russians have learned the very hard way not to rush vehicles and infantry ahead of supplies and without adequate air support in heavily forested territory where they do not already have significant material and human infrastructure support (unlike in Donbass). If there is to be any attack on Chernihiv City it will come from the Bryansk Oblast or Belarus.
It doesn't have to be that kind of thrust though does it?
A slow and careful incursion into the Northern Border at this time could be the kind of distraction that the Russians need to be able to keep the final momentum going in the Donbass.

Its a form of throwing in the reserves as soon as the enemy defenses start to crack and collapse. In this case it would be not so much putting more troops into the existing Donbass salient (as I am sure they already have all they need to do the job) but to divide and draw off the reserves from the Ukrainian army that would otherwise continue to reinforce the troops in the Donbass.

I believe we are already seeing such a move around Karkhov, so a a further move around Sumy could be the straw that breaks the camels back. I am thinking specifically about the further complications to the Ukraine's supply logistics, which complaints from their front, rather suggest are already a mess.
 

Atomicfrog

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Marders may have been unusually well protected for a ICV from the 1970s, but it is quite obsolete now.
Way better for Ukraine to get Bmp-1 than Marder. They are old but probably more usefull for Ukraine because they have parts in quantity and know-how to repair and use them. Getting Marders would have been another weapon systems without hope for repairing broken down unit. But inventory of old Soviet weapons system are clearly near empty, they will make logistic way more troublesome and costly for Ukraine. What they will get next ?
 
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Kich

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I've been away from this place for a while because the outcome of this war is very clear. Ukraine will lose and it will be the form of the East being captured and also the South, turning Ukraine into a landlocked state.

The Donbass campaign is going swimmingly well for Russia. Cities and towns will keep falling to Russia because Ukraine Forces will keep retreating to avoid encirclement. (Mariupol was a special case because those forces had their back to sea and tunnels to hide in so no comparison there).
It seems Ukraine counterattacks in the South is an attempt to distract Russia, but Russia has repelled a few of them and reinforcements are already heading there. News today is Russia s capturing some villages near Kharkiv so this is another attempting of stretching Ukraine's line.

Russia will win this. This question now is the timeline. I think this will be a 2 year campaign. It will be long and grueling. Western heavy arms won't make a difference and it will be a logistic nightmare to get them to frontlines in the East. They will only come in few numbers as well. And don't get me started on the maintenance nightmare that's going to happen to Ukraine.

Guns and tanks win battles. Logistics win wars and Russia has the better one.
 

LawLeadsToPeace

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When Kharkiv counterattack was happening I too was thinking Ukranians are advancing too easily and there are too few photos of destroyed Russian vehicles of casualties for this not to be a deliberate Russian plan to trade space for time. I don't think Dvornikov planned this encirclement but it kind of just happened as they started pushing back towards Kharkiv and he just took the opportunity. Dvornikov doesn't seem like someone who plans huge elaborate ploys way in advance but rather someone who's very good at adopting to the battlefield conditions from day to day. After the river crossing disaster at Bilohorivka he rapidly shifted focus to Izyum and as Ukrainians adjusted to respond to this bang Popasna break out.
True. However, Kharkiv is known to be one of the toughest regions to crack in the East. Russian forces pummeled that area hard for months but still couldn’t take it. In fact, it houses some of Ukraine’s best troops in the entire country. I’m fairly positive that Dvornikov understands that such an area cannot be successfully assaulted and captured without carpet bombing the city which would lead to horrific and unacceptable civilian losses (especially when you take in consideration of the fact that Kharkiv, if I remember correctly, is filled with predominantly Russian speakers) and his own losses as well (urban warfare is a b**ch). For a scenario like that, in the past, Mongol and Chinese troops would bait their enemies out and encircle them. With that information in mind, the possibility of the forces from Kharkiv getting purposely baited out is pretty high.
 
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alfreddango

Junior Member
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I mean, they managed to take mariupol, that stuff will be studied for years I think.
would a Kharkiv siege be comparable? or are they completely different scenarios?
 
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