The War in the Ukraine

Gloire_bb said:

Well, probably precisely to set up such an operation?
Blindly rushing more aircraft into a SAM trap isn't SEAD, it's suicide.

Also, as a rule of thumb, those raids include HARM cover(Su-35 typically). Something is now clearly wrong with it - but we don't know what.

Maybe L-150 RWR is inadequate against Patriot. Maybe (quite likely), 1 HARM, while enough to split the attention of older S-300PS, doesn't really affect Patriot engagement (it just engages that single missile in the process). Maybe, maybe, maybe.

Or maybe it's just a special case of lucky engagement for ukrainians - and there were many more attempts like this during the last half year - but we only get to know about successes.

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What evidence is there that they were shot down by Patriot? I find it unusual that Ukraine would broadcast this information.

Let’s not forget that Ukraine has received the much more capable French SAMP/T system with an AESA search&track radar and active radar homing Aster missiles.

Hypothetically,these can be fired in cooperative engagement mode with midcourse guidance from NATO AWACS aircraft, giving near zero warning time to the Russian Sukhois which are accustomed to being tracked by AWACS. By the time the missiles go active it is probably too late to evade them.

Or it could be that the Sukhoi’s RWR does not deal well with the Thales Arabel LPI AESA. Just some food for thought.

We have a photograph of a pilot's parachute, a photo of a crashed Flanker from last year, and a lot of claims with zero substance behind them.

A single Su-34 probably went down, as for the rest of the claims, without better evidence I wouldn't put much credence on them.

Zichan said:

What evidence is there that they were shot down by Patriot? I find it unusual that Ukraine would broadcast this information.

Let’s not forget that Ukraine has received the much more capable French SAMP/T system with an AESA search&track radar and active radar homing Aster missiles.

Hypothetically,these can be fired in cooperative engagement mode with midcourse guidance from NATO AWACS aircraft, giving near zero warning time to the Russian Sukhois which are accustomed to being tracked by AWACS. By the time the missiles go active it is probably too late to evade them.

Or it could be that the Sukhoi’s RWR does not deal well with the Thales Arabel LPI AESA. Just some food for thought.

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There's always the real possibility that the Russians shot down one of their own again. This isn't the first, the last one was an Su-35.

IFF can misperform easily under heavy EW environments, considering how much each side trying to jam out the drones, missiles, glide bombs and satellite guided munitions.

kwaigonegin said:

It's much much easier and faster to make tanks than young fighting men.
How long does it take to make a tank? 3-6 hours? If production is ramped up in a full war economy?
Contrast that to 18 yrs to make a fighting human, and you can't really speed that up.
Sadly Ukraine is running out the latter.

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3-6 hours ? it shows how much you know of the manufacturing process and engineering behind it

This is normal problem for somebody who doesn't know the stuff (not talking about you) and tend to hugely underestimated other areas that they don't know anything about it. The opposite for somebody knows a bit of stuff to hugely overestimate the area they know a bit

We can learn a lot from others views from this forum, great place

gelgoog said:

We have a photograph of a pilot's parachute, a photo of a crashed Flanker from last year, and a lot of claims with zero substance behind them.

A single Su-34 probably went down, as for the rest of the claims, without better evidence I wouldn't put much credence on them.

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fighterbomber himself hinted at losses I think you're just trying to cope.

Ukraine MOD made the claim because they fired at three targets very likely cued by US aircraft in which US aircraft then confirmed which then later russian milblogger fighterbomber made that post that hinted russian aviation suffered losses.

Looks like more bad news for Russian air force as Ukraine is confirming another SU-34 shot down and not yet confirmed SU-30

If the SU-30 is confirmed by Ukraine MOD then that makes 5 of the latest Russian 4th gen fighters taken out by Patriot.

Patriot is a beast.

SolarWarden said:

Looks like more bad news for Russian air force as Ukraine is confirming another SU-34 shot down and not yet confirmed SU-30

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1739021879095001112

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1739022478033228113

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1739023352172269925

If the SU-30 is confirmed by Ukraine MOD then that makes 5 of the latest Russian 4th gen fighters taken out by Patriot.

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If everything confirmed by Ukraine MOD, then that makes multiple times over of the whole Russian military killed.

SolarWarden said:

Patriot is a beast.

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Such a beast would have been welcome to prevent the columns of the counteroffensive from being devastated by air no?

Essentially a whole lot of noise over where the only new picture proof is a parachute somewhere. And where the traditionally truthful Ukrainian sources have already been caught peddling year old wreckages as supposed proof.

Marinka is completely liberated by the Russian Army per many reports even the Ukrainian channels confirm it…

@DDgeopolitics

Russian troops hit NASAMS, Crotale-NG air defense systems in Khmelnitsky region​

The Russian Armed Forces also hit aircraft equipment, flight navigation means and aviation ammunition at the airfields of Kanatovo in the Kirovograd region and Dnepr, as well as Ukrainian manpower and military hardware in 127 areas

MOSCOW, December 24. /TASS/. The Russian Armed Forces have hit Norwegian NASAMS and French Crotale-NG air defense systems at the Starokonstantinov airfield in the Khmelnitsky region, the Russian Defense Ministry said.
"Russian Tactical aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles, missile troops and artillery weapons hit Norway-made NASAMS and French-made Crotale-NG air defense systems at the airfield Starokonstantinov in the Khmelnitsky region, as well as aircraft equipment, flight navigation means and aviation ammunition at the airfields of Kanatovo in the Kirovograd region and Dnepr, as well as Ukrainian manpower and military hardware in 127 areas," the ministry said.

SolarWarden said:

Looks like more bad news for Russian air force as Ukraine is confirming another SU-34 shot down and not yet confirmed SU-30

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1739023352172269925

If the SU-30 is confirmed by Ukraine MOD then that makes 5 of the latest Russian 4th gen fighters taken out by Patriot.
Patriot is a beast.

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So a Patriot missile battery, with a range of at best 160 km, hit a Su-30 which was launching a Kh-59 cruise missile. Which has a range of at least 285 km. Right. As usual Ukraine can't even spin a believable lie.