We'll agree to disagree. If they are Eastern European, this is some of the best American English I've ever heard, and I've lived in America since I was 9.
The War in the Ukraine
- Thread starter SampanViking
- Start date
We'll agree to disagree. If they are Eastern European, this is some of the best American English I've ever heard, and I've lived in America since I was 9.
The TIME magazine article with Zelensky was meant to show the divide between two camps in Ukraine to the American elite
One backs Zelensky, and the TIME article devoted itself to showing this camp, although the article itself was unflattering, it painted this picture of a kind of desperate man, one who has become a liability to the west itself
On the other hand, Oleksiy Arestovich, and Valeriy Zaluzhny are postulated as some kind of anti heroes to the western audience
Both of their tones are conciliatory and favor some kind of freezing of the conflict
The voices of both Arestovich and Zaluzhny, highlight a total depletion of manpower
In fact the main argument for Minsk 3 is the lack of manpower to stave off Russian advances across the front
France 24, NBC, ABC, and PBS have jumped on the gravy train:
All the media outlets are saying the incontrovertible truth: Ukrainian manpower is depleted and peace talks must be made in the interim
Now a power dispute is breaking out as Zelensky censures his general Staff and privately berates the biden administration sources who are continuing to talk of defeat, and manpower shortages :
For Russia, the concern is simple, these divisions and cracks in the Ukrainian elite, do in fact signal that Ukraine has been attrited into a strategic level defeat
But now, how does Russia exact maximum profits? By keeping the war going
Minsk 3 will be offered by the west, and the Ukrainians favored by Zaluzhny, and Arestovich as they try to rescue what they can
But Russia will probably back Zelensky, and give him intel through back channels to keep him alive, or prevent any assassination or change of power, which could bring a peace deal to the table
It's better to fight Ukraine as it is now, depleted of equipment and manpower, then to allow the west to give them time to recover and rearm
A strategic defeat has been inflicted, and if Russia can keep Ukraine on this path, it will recuperate its sphere of influence to project into Europe.
One backs Zelensky, and the TIME article devoted itself to showing this camp, although the article itself was unflattering, it painted this picture of a kind of desperate man, one who has become a liability to the west itself
On the other hand, Oleksiy Arestovich, and Valeriy Zaluzhny are postulated as some kind of anti heroes to the western audience
Both of their tones are conciliatory and favor some kind of freezing of the conflict
The voices of both Arestovich and Zaluzhny, highlight a total depletion of manpower
In fact the main argument for Minsk 3 is the lack of manpower to stave off Russian advances across the front
France 24, NBC, ABC, and PBS have jumped on the gravy train:
All the media outlets are saying the incontrovertible truth: Ukrainian manpower is depleted and peace talks must be made in the interim
Now a power dispute is breaking out as Zelensky censures his general Staff and privately berates the biden administration sources who are continuing to talk of defeat, and manpower shortages :
For Russia, the concern is simple, these divisions and cracks in the Ukrainian elite, do in fact signal that Ukraine has been attrited into a strategic level defeat
But now, how does Russia exact maximum profits? By keeping the war going
Minsk 3 will be offered by the west, and the Ukrainians favored by Zaluzhny, and Arestovich as they try to rescue what they can
But Russia will probably back Zelensky, and give him intel through back channels to keep him alive, or prevent any assassination or change of power, which could bring a peace deal to the table
It's better to fight Ukraine as it is now, depleted of equipment and manpower, then to allow the west to give them time to recover and rearm
A strategic defeat has been inflicted, and if Russia can keep Ukraine on this path, it will recuperate its sphere of influence to project into Europe.
Broccoli
Senior Member
Karakut class hit by something.
Broccoli
Senior Member
Video showing missile strike appeared.
Merkel is on record saying that the purpose of Minsk 1 and Minsk 2 was simply to buy time to arm Ukraine. I doubt Putin will fall into this trap again, even if offered by the West.
The West is in a dilemma. There is now widespread acknowledgement that the war is unwinnable, but giving up Ukraine completely is also giving Putin carte blanche. The problem is that people are tiring of the endless billions. The shenanigans in the US Congress and Orban's veto to the EU aid package both point to the same direction.
I think the Ukrainians would not quietly accept Russian occupation in the Western parts of the country but I suspect the Donbass would not protest much if Russia annexed them. Putin would probably be happy with a large chunk of Eastern Ukraine and then call it a day as long as he is confident that the country will not be allowed to re-arm. For the West, I don't see any good endgame. The gambit failed. Russia's economy is back and the sanctions flopped. They are outproducing the West by a massive amount on ammo.
I don't think they will just cut and run like they did in Afghanistan, but it seems clear that Ukraine will essentially be told to accept defeat and give up several provinces. There will not be any other option.
Except Russia do not hold all of Donbass at the moment. Ukraine must either give it to Russia, or Russia must take it by force and then force a ceasefire. Despite Ukraine being battered I don't think a collapse is happening yet. It will take at least another year for Russia to grind rest of Donbass down, even if everything go their way. I don't think a ceasefire is in sight.
The plan is not to move on Kiev as of yet, more things must be achieved:
1. Establish and hold a land bridge to Crimea - accomplished
2. Invade and dismantle the Donbass defensive system - in progress
3. Chase them from Donbass across the open steppe, across the left bank, and isolate them as they disperse - will commence after spring according to many analysts
4. Force a 2nd battle for Kiev - end of 2024
5. Move into the right bank of Ukraine - 2025
More or less this is the plan for the MOD and General Staff which Shoigu himself confirmed, the SMO was projected to achieve its goals in 2025
As the winter campaign to damage the electrification stations goes on - it will be less likely the average citizen of Ukraine will keep supporting fighting on unfavorable terms, and thus far we have not seen an insurgency in the south, so we have no reason to believe there will be much resistance once the Ukrainian military collapses in the donbass
Afzalov by the way was appointed as commander of the VKS for this precise campaign, after Surovikin, was promoted, or relieved (depending on what version you believe)
I do believe that what I called for, will be implemented by the VKS, not necessarily wide spread destruction of civilians as we see in Gaza
But certainly, harsh measures to begin maneuver warfare against Ukrainian defenses, as Ukraine transitions into a stationary defense, and begins rebuilding its defenses after the collapse of the Kramatorsk agglomeration, and the Seversk cauldron
They will build new defenses, in the spirit of our own departed Surovikin
Lacking the concrete of Donetsk, you will see greater reliance on trench diggers, mining vehicles, and ATGM, as well as sector wide artillery in the spirit of WW1
The only problem for them, is that Russia will have what they did not before- aviation, and a commander which understands combined warfare from aviation perspective, he was of course an Aerospace officer, not an army general like Surovikin
Noone in the VKS liked to be under Armageddon, even if you don't read about it, the greatest insult was to have the Air and Space forces under some infantry officer
Notice even the VKS operations have improved from perspective of data integration (A50U + S400)
(30 + planes downed in one week)
1. Establish and hold a land bridge to Crimea - accomplished
2. Invade and dismantle the Donbass defensive system - in progress
3. Chase them from Donbass across the open steppe, across the left bank, and isolate them as they disperse - will commence after spring according to many analysts
4. Force a 2nd battle for Kiev - end of 2024
5. Move into the right bank of Ukraine - 2025
More or less this is the plan for the MOD and General Staff which Shoigu himself confirmed, the SMO was projected to achieve its goals in 2025
As the winter campaign to damage the electrification stations goes on - it will be less likely the average citizen of Ukraine will keep supporting fighting on unfavorable terms, and thus far we have not seen an insurgency in the south, so we have no reason to believe there will be much resistance once the Ukrainian military collapses in the donbass
Afzalov by the way was appointed as commander of the VKS for this precise campaign, after Surovikin, was promoted, or relieved (depending on what version you believe)
I do believe that what I called for, will be implemented by the VKS, not necessarily wide spread destruction of civilians as we see in Gaza
But certainly, harsh measures to begin maneuver warfare against Ukrainian defenses, as Ukraine transitions into a stationary defense, and begins rebuilding its defenses after the collapse of the Kramatorsk agglomeration, and the Seversk cauldron
They will build new defenses, in the spirit of our own departed Surovikin
Lacking the concrete of Donetsk, you will see greater reliance on trench diggers, mining vehicles, and ATGM, as well as sector wide artillery in the spirit of WW1
The only problem for them, is that Russia will have what they did not before- aviation, and a commander which understands combined warfare from aviation perspective, he was of course an Aerospace officer, not an army general like Surovikin
Noone in the VKS liked to be under Armageddon, even if you don't read about it, the greatest insult was to have the Air and Space forces under some infantry officer
Notice even the VKS operations have improved from perspective of data integration (A50U + S400)
(30 + planes downed in one week)
From the video of the attack to the Russian missile corvette we can see it was done with precision by 2 Storm Shadow/Scalp-eg missiles.
Static target are so easy meal with good over the clock ISR. These ships need to be supplied at sea or way farther than Crimea... it's again sloppy for the Russian navy.