The War in the Ukraine

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
lol
Lancets are only making up for Russian artillery deficiency in range. Unfortunately for them Ukrainian artillery which had usually already changed to 155mm (NATO standard) has superior range of fire. Russians can't keep up so if they want to shoot at something 15+ km behind the frontline all they can do is to use Lancets. That's one of the factors why Ukrainians loose some pieces when they're reloading (not applying every precaution of course which is their wrongdoing on most of the occasions) as they feel not threatened by the Russian artillery. Russians would probably want to get better artillery pieces with longer range and precision ammunition over any number of Lancets. They're all right but they are only making up for deficiencies and technical difficulties on Russian side. The numbers of destroyed equipment pieces favor Ukrainian artillery by a big margin.

We also see many 155s knocked out by Russian artillery both unguided and with guided Krasnopol or Kitolov ammunition. We also see many Ukrainian ammo depots, convoys, and command posts hit by these shells that indicate these are striking well behind Ukrainian lines into their logistics paths.

There is no technical deficiency at all with the Russian side. They have better UAV superiority due to having better and more dense AD and EW that knocks out Ukrainian UAVs, and UAVs are what spots for artillery. No UAV, no spotting. It's only a matter of spotting the artillery pieces, and no matter what the range, the Russians can deal with it, for example with Tornado-S up to 120km in range. For that matter, Tornado G can use it's GPS guided rockets all the way to 45km range.

Range of base 152mm shell is up to 24km and with rocket assist up to 37km. The Malka with it's 203mm shell goes up to 47km with it's rocket assisted shell. Krasnopol ranges are unknown because aerodynamic refinements in the shell design means the shell can travel even further.

A lot of the precision hits on the Ukrainian side are actually using 152mm and 122mm, using home grown ammunition. This is the Kvnitnik 152mm and Karasuk 122mm shells which the Ukrainians developed from their part of the Soviet program that develop the Krasnopol. The advantage is that Ukraine managed to access Western chip technology to complete their projects. Compared to 155mm Excaliburs, the Ukrainian shells cost much lower, like $35,000 each compared to an Excalibur that cost like $170,000 each as much as a single HIMARS rocket. The advantage of being laser guided the shell meant it is ECM proof unlike GPS guided munitions and can hit moving targets, along with being more expendable and worthy of being used against cheaper targets because it is cheaper and locally produced. Many of the kills attributed to HIMARS and Excaliburs might be more attributed to these shells but MSM is trying hard to shill for HIMARS and Excaliburs.

The advantage of using the 122mm and 152mm is that it's self maintainable on the Ukrainian side unlike the 155mm which has a fast barrel wear and electronics that suffer under the Ukrainian mud and weather and has to be sent back to Germany or Poland for repair. Hence why we still see a ton of 152mm and 122mm still being used in Ukraine. In addition to that the reputation of reliability of both the D-20 and D-30 howitzers are legendary and they command high demand in the arms market.

In 2022 the use of Ukrainian laser guided shells gave the Ukrainians a step up over the Russians until the Russians are able to acquire electronics (take your best guess who) needed to fix the Krasnopol and scale it's production and that started to happen around early 2023, and now it is heavily mass produced along with it's 122mm counterpart the Kitolov-2 which also can be used with 120mm mortars. Krasnopol techs are also applied to the shells used on the Pion/Malka and the Tyulpan. This access to technologies also at the same time, allowed the scaled up production of Lancets, which also in turn is also tied to the increased production of Orlan-10 and Orlan-30 UAVs that spot and guide for Krasnopol and Kitolov shells. This leads up to the situation today.


In other news, we see many Ukrainians surrendering which the Ukrainians can apply through a publicized frequency range.


A bit of info about Russian mines.


This didn't cover the PTM-3 and PTM-4 land mines that are antitank and yes HEAT or shaped charges, plus finally the PTKM-1R antitank jumping mine that has a kill radius of about 100 meters, along with Agriculture mine layer that can lay mines as far as 15km away via multiple rocket launch.

Humvee destroyed by Russian artillery.


Russian Airborne hitting Ukrainian shelters with one shot artillery.


Destroyed Ukrainian vehicles by the 247th Cossack Regiment of the VDV.


Krasnopol hit on a Ukrainian Strela-10. The comment didn't say anything but the video has evidence of a green target reticle, which is indicative of lasing. Lasing color codes. Green = Excellent target gain. Blue = Good to Fair gain. Yellow = Keep trying.

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This Ukrainian Strela-10 is knocked out by Lancet this time.

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RottenPanzer

Junior Member
Registered Member
lol
Lancets are only making up for Russian artillery deficiency in range. Unfortunately for them Ukrainian artillery which had usually already changed to 155mm (NATO standard) has superior range of fire. Russians can't keep up so if they want to shoot at something 15+ km behind the frontline all they can do is to use Lancets. That's one of the factors why Ukrainians loose some pieces when they're reloading (not applying every precaution of course which is their wrongdoing on most of the occasions) as they feel not threatened by the Russian artillery. Russians would probably want to get better artillery pieces with longer range and precision ammunition over any number of Lancets. They're all right but they are only making up for deficiencies and technical difficulties on Russian side. The numbers of destroyed equipment pieces favor Ukrainian artillery by a big margin.
That's genuinely a rather bold statement in claiming that M777s had much longer range than their Russian counterparts (though it certainly had range advantages compare to the Russian 122mm counterpart)

What sources did you back regarding this claim dude? Because the official consensus is that Russian 152mm tended to have much longer range than their American counterpart

You should start watching videos from other sources then I assume.

There is a fresh document out there which sums up the confirmed losses (could be repaired, not necessarily complete loss) in the recent fights on Zaporhozhian front:

When it comes to the losses the numbers are:
- 25 to 7 in self-propelled artillery in favor of Ukraine
- 62 to 46 in tanks in favor of Ukraine (around 11 Western made tanks)

It's said that the losses on the Ukrainian side should be at least 3 times that of Russian ones when they're attacking (which they do).

So what's the truth then?

Feel free to confront the author of the report of course.

It's inherently foolish in believing a single documented sources regarding the vehicular losses suffered by both sides due to the possibility of personal bias the said individual could possibly had.

Usually vehicular documentations are also quite unreliable because it's solely rely upon official released photos that was released in order to boost their own respective sides prestiges.
 

KYli

Brigadier
Not sure how Ukriane got those NK's rockets but the stockpile is old from 80s and 90s.
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Ukrainian soldiers told FT a "friendly" country "seized" the North Korean rockets from a ship, but did not give further details. A Ukrainian defense official said the weapons may have been taken directly from Russian troops.

"We capture their tanks, we capture their equipment and it is very possible that this is also the result of the Ukrainian army successfully conducting a military operation," Yuriy Sak, adviser to Ukraine's defense minister, told FT, adding: "Russia has been shopping around for different types of munitions in all kinds of tyrannies, including North Korea and Iran."
 

LawLeadsToPeace

Senior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
Not sure how Ukriane got those NK's rockets but the stockpile is old from 80s and 90s.
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Ukrainian soldiers told FT a "friendly" country "seized" the North Korean rockets from a ship, but did not give further details. A Ukrainian defense official said the weapons may have been taken directly from Russian troops.

"We capture their tanks, we capture their equipment and it is very possible that this is also the result of the Ukrainian army successfully conducting a military operation," Yuriy Sak, adviser to Ukraine's defense minister, told FT, adding: "Russia has been shopping around for different types of munitions in all kinds of tyrannies, including North Korea and Iran."
It is possible that such rockets were from Iranian shipments to the Houthi rebels in Yemen. We have seen Chinese Type 56’s being sent to Ukraine as well due to these seized shipments.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Literally a highway to Hell. Another view of the Ukrainian APC column rushing towards Rabotino and hitting into a minefield and artillery. The destruction is observed by a drone from the BARS 11 "Kuban Cossacks" special forces volunteer units. This unit is a veteran on the defense of Liman last year.

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Same event from the cameras of the Marines of the 177th Regiment. One Bradley hit by artillery the rest ripped by mines. (Note that Russians refer to all armored vehicles as BMP in generic term).

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One of the trophy AMX-10R reaches Mariopol on its way to Russia.

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Staromayorsky from Ukrainian POV. The village functionally doesn't exist anymore. No way you can use this for shelter. It's just another Pyatihatki at this point.

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Temstar

Brigadier
Registered Member
I do not share because I have doubts about the veracity of the videos, that's why I said that I prefer to wait for the geolocation.
About that:
I shell quote the latest from Suriyak about this mythical first defense line:

Clarification: When it was mentioned in the previous tweets that Ukrainian Army managed to reach the first Russian defense line, we weren't talking about the first major defense line but the ones that are located where the May 2023 frontline were placed before the beginning of the Ukrainian counteroffensive. The first major defense line still located a few dozen of kilometers downstream from where the fighting is taking place. Sorry if you understood another different thing. Once it will be reached (if happens) we will refer it as "major defense line".
Unless by breech you mean "got lost and drove around until your BMP ended up in an anti-tank ditch."
 

Janiz

Senior Member
What sources did you back regarding this claim dude? Because the official consensus is that Russian 152mm tended to have much longer range than their American counterpart
Sure, what are your sources about range of combination of Krasnopol fired from Msta and Excalibur fired from AHS Krab? You know that the effective range is like twice longer for the latter? And the same for M109 and any other Western made self propelled howitzer. It was said that Koalitsiya might get somewhere near that but that's the artillery equivalent of Armata tank - no one had seen it firing and dreams about mass producing those are unrealistic for the coming 2 decades.

Ideas about M777 used to target the high value Russian assets behind the front is especially peculiar.
It's inherently foolish in believing a single documented sources regarding the vehicular losses suffered by both sides due to the possibility of personal bias the said individual could possibly had.
And on your list (which of course is not biased)? You have like 250 hidden videos of lancets destroying Leos and other stuff?

lol, when the numbers aren't on our side this means that they're biased.
Usually vehicular documentations are also quite unreliable because it's solely rely upon official released photos that was released in order to boost their own respective sides prestiges.
I can guarantee to you that not even a single hit of lancet is hidden and not released even if it hadn't destroyed anything (which is also what happens in a lot of cases, the same with Ukrainians recovering most of the "destroyed" vehicles).
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Russians sent an FPV drone to visit this Ukrainian sniper and observation point on top of this building.

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Iskander lands at the SBU building at Dnepropetrovsk. The building is used as a command post.

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Lancet hits a Finnish supplied XA-180 APC in Zaporzhyzhia.

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FPV drone strikes the top of an M113 at the moment a soldier at the hatch was checking his smartphone.

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Original video of the strike on smartphone soldier from the Sudaplatov Battalion.

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Lancet hits a T-64BV at the Kharkhov region.

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Ukrainian DRG hit by artillery at night in South Donetsk.

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Humvee destroyed by artillery from the 110th Motorized Rifle Division in Donetsk.

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Krasnopol hit on a Ukrainian SPG artillery hidden in forest line.

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This video came out recently but this was during the early days of the counteroffensive at Zaporhyzhia. A single Russian tank faced an entire Ukrainian column of two tanks and five APCs and took them all out.

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Captured Ukrainian UAV, 'Fury'.

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Massed effect from a BM-21 Grad massed fire on a Ukrainian deployment point.

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FPV drone hit on Ukrainian BTR-80.

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Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
Honestly lancets are quick, but they don't strike me as particularly maneuverable to me just based on footage seen, Its more comparable to a ATGM then say, a fpv drone which can quite literally turn on a dime while slinging a rpg warhead around. It's not like we haven't seen extremely well placed ATGM shots in the past but I doubt they train specifically for it more than a passing mention of tactics, lancets are basically brand new if you consider how recently it's rolled out.

Best practice would really be semi automatic final approach, some ATGMs and NLAW does top down automatically greatly reducing crew skills needed.
Glancing blow on most target will bring it to the repair shop anyway...
 
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