The War in the Ukraine

Stealthflanker

Senior Member
Registered Member
Can someone recommend some Twitter accounts for the latest developments that aren't pro Russia or Ukraine

I'm afraid that doesnt really exist. You have to shift through materials by yourself and use your own conscience and knowledge to filter jingoistic things.

There are some professional accounts like say CaptNavy or Planespotter (Tony Roper) which -sometime- do War things. They however rarely posts and not always posting war accounts. They do however break down misinformations etc.
 

FriedButter

Colonel
Registered Member
Some more details on the NPP cooling system from the IAEA, Media etc, and other collateral damage. Argicultural sector has enough water for 1.5 months with next season being problematic.

Tuesday Reservoir Level = 16.4 meters
Cooling Level Required = 12.7 meters
Water Level Drop = 2.5 meters initially + Up to 7 meters.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

IAEA saying within 2 days that the ZNPP may lose water pumping if current drop rate continues. ZNPP is filling water reservoirs near the plant that if full will allow it to continue cooling for several months.

However, the hourly loss rate has slowed slightly, to between 5 and 7 centimetres per hour from a peak of around 11 cm/hour yesterday, he added, citing information from the IAEA’s experts present at the ZNPP.

If the level falls below 12.7 metres, the ZNPP will no longer be able to pump water from the reservoir to the site. As the full extent of the dam’s damage remains unknown, it is not possible to predict if and when this might happen. If the current drop rate were to continue, however, the 12.7 metre level could be reached within the next two days (the heights used are relative to the Baltic Sea – known as the Baltic Heights System).

Preparing for such a possibility, the ZNPP is continuously replenishing its water reserves – including the large cooling pond next to the plant as well as its smaller sprinkler cooling ponds and the adjacent channels – by fully utilizing the water of the Kakhovka reservoir while this still remains possible.

When full, these water sources will be sufficient to provide the plant with the water it needs to cool its six reactors as well as its spent fuel for several months. Even though the ZNPP’s six reactors are all in shutdown mode, they still require cooling water to prevent fuel melt and a possible release of radioactive material, Director General Grossi said.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

drowingfish

Junior Member
Registered Member
people getting too tunnel visioned on the dam here. real focus must still be on the counterattack. and it seems like ukraine just turned it up a notch tonight, multiple accounts reporting massive attacks across the zaporozhia front. by tomorrow morning there should be some fidelity on exactly how far ukraine has penetrated, but this could tell us a bit about how the rest of the year is going to go. it will be a big day tomorrow.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
It has been confirmed the struck AD system was an IRIS-T. There was a launcher and radar nearby and the Russians went for the radar first



Good choice for the drone operator. AESA radar TRML-4D costs an arm and a leg to replace.

They must have moved it nearer the front to cover their ground units, which are under heavy attack by drones and attack helicopters. They must have underestimated the range of the Lancet --- the Russians never revealed it's true range nor publicly admitted to the operation of it's longer wingspan version.

The footage appears to be from another ZALA drone, Super Cam, which is used to scout targets for the Lancet.


Added to save post count.

Lancet takes out yet another M777.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

These things are death traps.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

42 vehicular kills counted from two videos alone.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
Last edited:

Stealthflanker

Senior Member
Registered Member
people getting too tunnel visioned on the dam here. real focus must still be on the counterattack. and it seems like ukraine just turned it up a notch tonight, multiple accounts reporting massive attacks across the zaporozhia front. by tomorrow morning there should be some fidelity on exactly how far ukraine has penetrated, but this could tell us a bit about how the rest of the year is going to go. it will be a big day tomorrow.

Yeah, as the dam easily sells for PR move.
---

Also saw TRML-4D Radar got hit. The radar antenna appears to be stationary, either the radar is shut down or it's in sector scan mode for long range surveillance and CRAM modes.

It's actually some good hit as phased arrays are hard to find and kill especially modern ones. Each TRML-4D contains about 8357 GaN TRM's. Each could cost about 1400 USD.
 

Heliox

Junior Member
Registered Member
The plant is in cold shutdown. Still needs some cooling but that can via diesel generators for a couple of weeks. After that the Russians will be under big pressure to figure something out, but we don't know yet how compromised the cooling water supply is.
4 of the reactors are on cold shutdown but 2 of the reactors are on hot shutdown since last November. The CEO of Rosenergoatom said if anything happens to the power grid then it would have to be cooled down with diesel generators again. Tho the issue isn’t the power grid but the cooling supply.

Lifted from another forum ...

"At the Zaporozhye NPP, the spent fuel pools and the reactor in the MCU mode (minimum controlled level) are cooled from special" splash "pools, they are located on land and are clearly visible from the satellite. There, water circulates in a closed circuit, gradually evaporates from heating by the sun and it is simply topped up (not from the river).

The cooling pond is separated from the Kakhovka reservoir by a dam and has a couple of gates for "receiving" or "draining" water (depending on the level difference).

The pond is large, I don’t remember a single case when in the summer there was a decrease in the power of the blocks due to the high water temperature in the pond. The pond is divided by a partition into 2 parts, so that water can be taken from one place, and the water that has passed through the turbine condensers can be drained to another. Water "walks" around the ring and cools.

In any case, the Zaporozhye NPP will operate only with the 5th and 6th blocks for the time being, and this pond will definitely be enough for them.

If there is a problem with water, one or more plastic pipes will reach the place where there will still be water in the reservoir and this will be enough to solve it. In this case, you just need to compensate for evaporation and leakage in the reservoir."


fwiw, the cooling of the shotdown reactors shouldn't be a problem barring some spectacular incompetence.
 

Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
For those who are not aware: I'm a licensed design & construction professional.

The dam could collapse on its own due to exceeding of safety parameters for structural integrity. While it is difficult to prove that this is what happened without access to design data for the dam we can easily tell that the failure was inevitable.

Here's why:

This graphs shows data on water levels from 2016 to 2023:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Below data for 2019-2023. Red denotes conditions before failure. Blue and green are periods of greatest change in water levels in previous years. Black numbers indicate relative change of water level compared to previous state. Red numbers are approximate duration of change in months.

View attachment 114072

Kakhovka dam is a gravity dam.

This is the generic representation of a gravity dam:

View attachment 114073
Gravity dam works against the pressure exerted by the body of water in two dimensions - it uses mass and inertia to prevent the water from overturning and it uses mass and friction to prevent the water from pushing it aside. The dam's section is designed so it stays in place and upright.

Water levels in the reservoir are therefore important for two reasons - they represent a change in mass and volume of body of water which respectively determine the load or force/pressure that is exerted on the structure as well as the area where the load affects the structure. So it's not just the forces it's also the torque - and if you remember something from school you should remember Archimedes' argument that with a long enough lever he would move the Earth. The height of the water is the "lever".

What you see on the graph is a type of harmonic movement that the body of water in lake Kakhovka exerts on the structure of the dam. That harmonic movement produces a wave of matter which then translates to similar harmonic movement of the dam. It is called resonance.

This is why and how buildings collapse during earthquakes. The movement of the earth is a wave of matter which continues along all matter connected to the earth. If you have high frequency wave (short and fast) then small buildings collapse but large buildings survive. If you have low frequency wave (long and and slow) then small buildings survive but short buildings collapse. It is usually demonstrated visually like this:


The buldings shake because the earthquake wave propagates through them. If the size of the building corresponds with the size of the wave then there's a moment where the entire structure of the building carries the entire energy and shape of the wave and the structure is deformed accordingly and stress is at maximum. In situations like these buildings may not even collapse, because they disintegrate in the air. They're broken everywhere at once by the wave.

The same thing happens here to the dam. Look how the water levels drop and rise: +0,5 -0,5 +0,5 -1,0 +0,75 -2,0 +3,5

This is essentially as if there was a very slow earthquake. Humans won't feel it. But structures will. Some structures are designed to take more of such dynamic stress but the historical trend of water levels indicates that Kakhovka dam wasn't designed to do that. Otherwise we'd see it as part of normal operations.

But that's not all. There's another problem - water changes physical properties of construction elements much like temperature can change structural strength of steel.

This is why in pure physical terms dams never really stop the flow of water but slow it down to an extreme degree. Water i.e. the matter of the body of water moves through the barrier both through the sluice gates, and through micropores and through the physical barrier itself - atom by atom, molecule by molecule, drop by drop. So dams are designed to manage the flow of water in a specific way.

The reason why there are so many sluice gates is because the geometry of the water stream matters to structural integrity. It's not just managing the water flow downstream. If that was it then large dams like Three Gorges would have a single huge sluice placed in a separate canyon like the locks for navigation. Structurally that is much easier to handle but the dam needs a control mechanism to retain structural integrity.

If you need to discharge excess water you do it with optimal parameters - many sluices at once so that the water stream has largest possible geometry which determines the pressure of the stream and therefore forces exerted on the aperture and the rest of the structure. Too much water through too small an aperture and the structure will be damaged.

Combine it with that slow earthquake and the water will get inside the structure, change the physical properties of everything and the entire dam will turn from solid to plastic. Jet fuel doesn't melt beams, it makes them plastic and unable to carry the load. Water does the same to dams.

View attachment 114079

This is elementary violation of safety. The same sluices continuously discharging water for weeks. Once the level of water reaches or exceeds the maximum - as it did recently - this happens:

View attachment 114080

Top circle indicates two diffraction patterns - the water stream is so strong that as the water hits the edge of the aperture (sluice) it has such energy that it can back-propagate with a diffraction pattern.
Bottom circle indicates that the road bridge collapsed due to one of the supports being washed away by the stream of water around 1st or 2nd of June.

What you see here is the dam already being slowly ripped to pieces by the forces exerted by the water in the lake. The part above water just signals that the part underwater is losing its integrity and physical properties.

This is what actual structural failure looks like in real time - it's like an explosion but in very slow motion because that's how energy moves through water compared to fast oxidation in explosions or particle release in chain reaction.

And finally:

View attachment 114081

What you see here is what happens when the earthen mound that formed part of the dam loses its structural integrity due to a mass of water getting inside it from the other side. The water flowing through the breached dam got on land, got into the ground, changed its physical properties and turned it plastic which then allowed the huge mass of the water in the reservoir to push it out of the way.

So as far as I can tell there's no explosive damage necessary to destroy the dam. All you need to do is deliberate violation of safe operation of the dam.

And that was only possible for Russians because they were the ones controlling the dam. If they didn't want to destroy it they could easily come to some type of safety arrangement with the Ukrainians like it was done in Zaporozhia NPP. There's nothing that Ukraine gains by failure of the dam which was inevitable if Russians didn't operate it per safety rules. The Russians might have as well tell the Ukrainians to come and operate the sluices themselves which they absolutely would because the consequences are obvious.

There was nothing that Ukraine could have done that was damaging to Russian side there.

And no, there's no way you can damage the dam by even an extensive artillery shelling. This is orders of magnitude below what's necessary in terms of destructive power. The actual structure of the dam is underwater and it's massive. If just the sluices were destroyed then the flooding would be limited and then both the upstream and downstream parts of Dnipro would equalize. The problem is not water overflowing over the top of the dam. The problem is destruction of the dam underneath.

It's basic structural engineering and the violation of safety was overt and blatant.

And if you don't know - every legal system, including that of Russia, puts legal obligation to maintain all structures in condition preventing their collapse. Here is the relevant term:

Отказ​

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

And considering that Russia has unilateraly annexed Kherson oblast it puts Kakhovka dam under the legal regime of Russian safety regulations. If those safety regulations are violated the sanction is under criminal law.

I think this is why Russia has recently did this:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

So I'm saying this as a licensed professional who has a similar legal obligation under Polish/EU regulations:
  1. it's Russia's fault
  2. it's deliberate
  3. it is blatant
Can it be excused by incompetence of leadership in war conditions? No. At some point some Russian officer was told by the engineers that this could happen and said "I don't care" or a commander didn't ask an engineer if it could happen.

Why the media continue with "Russians blew up the dam" is a mystery to me. I blame it on the stupidity and arrogance of leadership and media who don't care about what happened as long as it fits their narrative. Explosive demolition is plausible but it's clearly not what happened here and it really is that blatant. Could Russians also blow it up? Sure. But they didn't need to.

It was just a question of time before the dam burst because structural safety was deliberately broken.
The dam can collapse sure but, whats the deal with the video of huge explosion at the dam in the early morning on 6th of june?
 

Right_People

Junior Member
Registered Member
people getting too tunnel visioned on the dam here. real focus must still be on the counterattack. and it seems like ukraine just turned it up a notch tonight, multiple accounts reporting massive attacks across the zaporozhia front. by tomorrow morning there should be some fidelity on exactly how far ukraine has penetrated, but this could tell us a bit about how the rest of the year is going to go. it will be a big day tomorrow.
Seems like no penetration for the moment. Reports say it was the biggest tank battle since Operation Hoveyzeh in 1981.
 
Last edited:

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
4th day of high intensity combat, haven’t seen enough to make any decent assessment.

However, all I will say is that while Ukraine is typically fairly quiet during these offensive operations, they still take every chance to post PR photos.

For example, in Balaklia, the Ukrainian flag was hung and posted within a few days. Same with Kherson offensive, they first few villages that were taken had a photoshoot with the Ukrainian flag the very next day.

Ukraine not doing anything similar in the last 4 days is a pretty good indicator that no settlement has been taken yet. That said, the week is not over yet. If the offensive is indeed in motion, we have many more weeks to go. I hope for as few deaths as possible, God be with every soldier who fights for his country.
 
Top