The War in the Ukraine

G

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Stealthflanker said:
One thing apparently, US not gonna send their stocks of F-16's. Maybe Norway's F-16's or Netherlands or maybe Belgium.

Although ideally it should be US or maybe Turkey, as Turkey have factory level maintenance facility for them and enough numbers to not deplete their own air force.
Click to expand...
Turkey won't be sending any F-16s. Not when the US has banned them from buying F-35s.

It is highly likely European F-16s will get sent to Ukraine, since it will only increase demand for the F-35 as they fail to deter the Russian Air Force. Sending aircraft piecemeal with poorly trained crews will prove of little use however. Sending the F-16s in Western Europe to Ukraine will also irrevocably weaken European air power. If a significant amount is sent, it might weaken European air power for the next half decade or even worse.
 
A

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
gelgoog said:
Turkey won't be sending any F-16s. Not when the US has banned them from buying F-35s.

It is highly likely European F-16s will get sent to Ukraine, since it will only increase demand for the F-35 as they fail to deter the Russian Air Force. Sending aircraft piecemeal with poorly trained crews will prove of little use however. Sending the F-16s in Western Europe to Ukraine will also irrevocably weaken European air power. If a significant amount is sent, it might weaken European air power for the next half decade or even worse.
Click to expand...
Given the European air forces with F-16 barely have squadron sized numbers, any transfers will result in guaranteed sales for the F-35. Just don't expect to be receiving them any time soon, and make sure you have plenty of rustoleum...

Mixed signals regarding F-16s. Or maybe the Americans want to hog all the contracts for F-16 pilot training.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
tankphobia

tankphobia

Senior Member
Registered Member
Why is there just pages and pages of back and forth about the patriots without any new information? It has happened and neither side has any solid proof of what they are claiming, leave the thread space for more important updates, i.e Bakhmut tug of war.
 
LawLeadsToPeace

LawLeadsToPeace

Senior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
foxmulder said:
Mods, you delete my sarcastic post... cool
Click to expand...
Because sarcastic posts are banned. We had a ton of them that literally clogged this thread. Read the rules on the first post of this thread.
foxmulder said:
do smt about the above ridiculous claim as well, then. 6 kinzhals, 9 kalibrs and 3 iskanders for one patriot??? Get real people. Use some logic.

maybe they use 2-4 real missiles an a few baits... above numbers can be the true but for an attack covering the targets whole country :)
Click to expand...
It's a claim by the Ukrainian military, not a random Twitter account. If you have superior evidence that can disprove their statement, we are all ears. Until then, please vent your emotions elsewhere and post in a mature manner. Otherwise, a warning and, if needed, a ban will follow.

tankphobia said:
Why is there just pages and pages of back and forth about the patriots without any new information? It has happened and neither side has any solid proof of what they are claiming, leave the thread space for more important updates, i.e Bakhmut tug of war.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Given how everyone exhausted their sources, can you all stop beating a dead horse? Unless more official and/or solid information is released, please make your final statements and refrain from discussing about it any further.
 
Last edited:
Z

Zichan

Junior Member
Registered Member
Anlsvrthng said:
Try to clarify it for you.
View attachment 112871
Because of the aerodinamic penalty the Patriot has smaller range and kill area in EACH version compared to the oldest S-300.
You arguing about after launch the angle of the tracking and illumination radar restricted , shown in the picture .
View attachment 112872
Which is more of an academic interest for the S-300, but serius penalty for the PAC, because the S300 using separated radar for tracking and for surveillance/detection, so even if the flap lid turned to one target, the big bird still detecting targets.

But the patriot use ONE radar for both purpose.



Again, the patriot is INFERIOR and BACKWARD compared to the earliest S-300.

Your resaoning saying, the patriot is better even if the range, killzone, ttracking and engagement capability completely inferrior, I presume because it has 5.1 sound system compared to the mono speakers in the S-300 .

So, it is way easier to destroy a Patriot battery in the middle of Kiew compared to an S-300 battery, even the 80s vintage, because the later is MORE CAPABLE.
Click to expand...
The comparison is between the S-300 Ukraine fields (max range 90km) and the Patriot variants they received (PAC-2 GME (max range 160km) and PAC-3). The former is 80s vintage technology, while the latter are 21st century upgrades.

As Ukrainie itself explained, their S-300 was unable to intercept the Kinzhal air launched ballistic missile, whereas their Patriot were. Therefore, there shouldn’t be any doubt as to which system is more advanced.
 
Z

Zichan

Junior Member
Registered Member
gelgoog said:
Turkey won't be sending any F-16s. Not when the US has banned them from buying F-35s.

It is highly likely European F-16s will get sent to Ukraine, since it will only increase demand for the F-35 as they fail to deter the Russian Air Force. Sending aircraft piecemeal with poorly trained crews will prove of little use however. Sending the F-16s in Western Europe to Ukraine will also irrevocably weaken European air power. If a significant amount is sent, it might weaken European air power for the next half decade or even worse.
Click to expand...
I read the other day that the Dutch and British are working on an “international coalition” for sending F-16s to Ukraine. The Netherlands is in the process of replacing theirs with F-35s.
 
S

sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
A leaked report says the F-16's basic training course could be reduced to 4 months for the Ukranians. This would be a very basic course with no certainty as how capable would they be with them over the battlefield plus the assesment was done using simulators of two Ukranian pilots.

After that they would only receive 3 weeks of air-to-air combat training focused on interception and WVR engagements. It wouldn't include

Basic Fighter maneuvers (BFM), Air Combat Maneuvering (ACM), Air-to-Air Refueling (AAR), Close Air Support (CAS), and Basic Surface Attack (BSA)
Click to expand...

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top