The War in the Ukraine

Virtup

Junior Member
Registered Member
If Russia lose this war, some ego is bruised but they can recover in a decade or two. If they go all in nuclear nobody wins and Russia gets turned into glass and there will be no coming back from that.

Russian nukes are only there to prevent a direct NATO intervention/invasion, nothing more, nothing less.
I never said they should use nukes, that's completely insane, and Russia is better than that, or at least I hope it is (you never know with what's happening between Shoigu and Prigozhyn).
What I'm wondering is why striking NATO miltary targets and then daring them to start nuclear war, where they have more to lose, over it, is such a bad idea, and what should be done instead to respond to the escalations over the past few days (full mobilization is out, that's the US's objective).
 

Right_People

Junior Member
Registered Member
If Russia lose this war, some ego is bruised but they can recover in a decade or two. If they go all in nuclear nobody wins and Russia gets turned into glass and there will be no coming back from that.

Russian nukes are only there to prevent a direct NATO intervention/invasion, nothing more, nothing less.
Russia hasnt even recovered from the 90s ...
If Russia losses the war in a bad way (2014 borders or so) there is no coming back for Russia, for sure not in his current form.
After the 90s all of Russia has had military power at its centre or one of its centres for everything, from social cohesion, external projection, to an important part of its industry and technological development is 100% dependent on this.
If it is defeated in such a humiliating manner, there will clearly be internal problems in Russia, I won't go into more detail as the mods deleted my previous comment in this area, but let's just say, there is historical similarities.
 

Intrepid

Major
But that's basically a death sentence, no?
No, it isn't. In 1995 - after the Cold War - I was a West German pilot in Russia for a fortnight and flew L-39s and AN-24s. In the evenings I sat together with the Russian pilots who acted as safety pilots on my flights and we agreed: we are not enemies, we are friends. And we don't need war any more.

I wish for those times to come back.
 

baykalov

Senior Member
Registered Member
Girkin, who is also known as Igor Strelkov and Gubarev founded an organisation called the Angry Patriots Club. Their first meeting is in Moscow on 12 May. Reuters and some other Western journos attended the press conference.

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  • Girkin says he is entering Russian politics
  • Says Putin is only guarantor of stability
  • Nationalists warn of Russia's collapse
  • Say Russian army is failing in Ukraine
MOSCOW, May 12 (Reuters) - Pro-war Russian nationalists led by Igor Girkin said on Friday that a new group they had set up was entering politics to save Russia, which they warned was in danger of turmoil or even collapse due to military failures in the Ukraine war.

Nearly 15 months since President Vladimir Putin sent troops into Ukraine in what he called "a special military operation", Moscow says it has still not achieved all of its aims as its forces brace for a Ukrainian counteroffensive which is backed by the United States and the NATO military alliance.

The Russian nationalist group, known as the "Club of Angry Patriots", said it was entering politics as an opposition party without any formal or informal instruction from the Kremlin but said it saw Putin as the only true guarantor of stability in modern Russia. The club was founded on March 17.

Girkin, a former Federal Security Service (FSB) officer who helped Russia annex Crimea in 2014 and then organise pro-Russian militias in eastern Ukraine, said the group hoped to prevent the collapse of Russia.

"A systemic crisis is brewing in Russia - or it is already in the grip of crisis - while the temperature of society is rising," Girkin told Reuters. "We are on the cusp of very grave internal political changes of a catastrophic character."

"All healthy forces need to create organisations which will take part in the political battle which is inevitable - and which has already started," he said.

In Putin's Russia, fiercely nationalist politicians and bloggers have since the war began increasingly taken on the role of critics of the military top brass who they say is failing due to incompetence, corruption and even treachery.

The Kremlin did not comment on Girkin's move.
Putin, who is widely expected to run in the 2024 presidential election, says the special military operation will achieve all of its aims.

When asked by Reuters if he was naive to think he could announce such a political movement in Putin's Russia without the assent of the Kremlin, Girkin, 52, said: "I do hope you would not call me a naive person."

Girkin told reporters that it was clear that the battle for the "post-Putin" era had already begun inside the Russian elite.

"No matter how critical I am of Putin - Putin is currently the only legitimate figure in the Russian Federation," he said. If Putin was dislodged from power "it would mean the collapse of Russia," he said.

TURMOIL?
Girkin, who does not recognise Ukraine as a sovereign state and says much of it is part of Russia, said Russia would face defeat in the war unless it sacked top commanders, thieves and incompetents and began to fight in a much more serious way.

"If the current situation continues, then we will be defeated in this war," Girkin said, adding that victory for Russia would only be achieved if Ukrainian statehood was liquidated and cities including Kyiv controlled by Russia.

Echoing Putin's own framing of the war, Girkin said the West wanted to destroy Russia and trigger a coup to bring to power Western-backed politicians who would pillage Russia's natural resources and destroy Russian Slav culture.

"There will be no compromise: war will end with the Russian flag over Kyiv or the defeat of Russia with the aim of its partial occupation, its disarming and its desovereignisation."

He said the group had little money and no major financial sponsors and had been forced to scrabble together enough money for the announcement, which was made under tight security in a Moscow hotel.

The group's other leaders include Chairman Pavel Gubarev, a pro-Russian fighter from eastern Ukraine, and Yuri Yevich, a military doctor, and Mikhail Aksel, a former member of the late Eduard Limonov's Other Russia movement.

"Our task is either to help our country avoid the turmoil that is approaching or to create those positions on which we will act in that turmoil to prevent the destruction of Russia as a state and as unique civilisation," Girkin said.
 
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Right_People

Junior Member
Registered Member
Girkin, who is also known as Igor Strelkov and Gubarev founded an organisation called the Angry Patriots Club. Their first meeting is in Moscow on 12 May. Reuters and some other Western journos attended the press conference.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
  • Girkin says he is entering Russian politics
  • Says Putin is only guarantor of stability
  • Nationalists warn of Russia's collapse
  • Say Russian army is failing in Ukraine
I said in the deleted comment, that the political future of Russia is interesting ...

Anyway, what ever was hit in Khmelnitsky today, was huge:


That mushroom looks nuclear-sized, a few hundred tonnes of ammunition must have evaporated there.
 

Intrepid

Major
Girkin, who is also known as Igor Strelkov and Gubarev founded an organisation called the Angry Patriots Club. Their first meeting is in Moscow on 12 May. Reuters and some other Western journos attended the press conference.
Don't sell the skin till you have caught the bear.
 

Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
Yikes. According to FighterBomber this is the heaviest VKS loss to date since the beginning of the war. At least one Su-35 and one Su-34 included in the tally...
It clearly look like they placed a sam battery at a good place and waited to do a surprise party. Maybe it's the patriot battery, a new system in the conflict making a great entrance until it's a known system like the others and capability will wither with EW. They certainly got the VKS pants down.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
It clearly look like they placed a sam battery at a good place and waited to do a surprise party. Maybe it's the patriot battery, a new system in the conflict making a great entrance until it's a known system like the others and capability will wither with EW. They certainly got the VKS pants down.

There is speculation that a F-35 used the stealth advantage to fly close and provide targeting data for Ukrainian fighter and/or air defense missiles.
 
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