The War in the Ukraine

Right_People

Junior Member
Registered Member
Sooo we in the 10 May.
About 10 days after the alleged start of the Ukrainian counter-offensive according to allegedly leaked papers.
The day Wagner left Bakhmut.
etc.

It amuses me how many hours people have spent discussing these events on Twitter and elsewhere, events that have turned out not to happen, discussions based on information of dubious veracity and with little means of verification that many people took as axiomatic truths.

I think we live in a society that is hyper-accustomed to information, and that people are unable to admit that there are things that are not known and that any glimpse of information that comes to you will be very biased or even false in a situation like this.

Right now I could say that the Ukrainian offensive is not going to happen because the combination of a deficient air defence + the use of UMPC makes it impossible. I could also say the opposite and that in fact, those Western air systems will soon be on the front line and will destroy the Russian VKS.
It is simply impossible to know.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Romania has provided Ukraine some APR-40s. These are licensed versions of the BM-21 Grad using a Romanian tractor. The iconic Grad family of MLRS has proven itself as a reliable workhorse for both sides of the conflict.

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Destroyed Ukrainian 2C9 Nona in the Donetsk region done in by the DPR. If you're not familiar with it, it's a self propelled mortar using a BMP chassis. We're now in the Post Tank age, and SPGs have become more valuable. The shoot and scoot of this vehicle makes it a favorite of the VDV and other airborne and special forces.

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Prigozhin blames this debacle to the 72nd Mechanized Rifle Regiment who withdrew in this area before being plugged in again by Wagner forces. In the other hand I'm in the opinion that this area is indefensible unless you're on the east side of the canal. It's fairly far from supply routes.

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DPR forces are now officially under the Russian banner but that's not stopping all their prodigious social media output. The amount of videos coming from the Russian side are disproportionately from the DPR, most especially Lancet attacks, sniper shots, enemy squads being shelled or ATGM'ed, and drone grenade drops in trenches. Here a DPR ATGM finds and blows it's target in infrared imaging.

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Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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Sooo we in the 10 May.
About 10 days after the alleged start of the Ukrainian counter-offensive according to allegedly leaked papers.
The day Wagner left Bakhmut.
etc.

It amuses me how many hours people have spent discussing these events on Twitter and elsewhere, events that have turned out not to happen, discussions based on information of dubious veracity and with little means of verification that many people took as axiomatic truths.

I think we live in a society that is hyper-accustomed to information, and that people are unable to admit that there are things that are not known and that any glimpse of information that comes to you will be very biased or even false in a situation like this.

Right now I could say that the Ukrainian offensive is not going to happen because the combination of a deficient air defence + the use of UMPC makes it impossible. I could also say the opposite and that in fact, those Western air systems will soon be on the front line and will destroy the Russian VKS.
It is simply impossible to know.

Well … no-one claimed the counteroffensive would start on May 1st … as such - and even if I‘m sure it is already going on, albeit at a much different level than many expect - we are not at Day 10 of „nothing happens and nothing will happen“ … just wait.
 

baykalov

Senior Member
Registered Member
The truth is that Zelensky doesn't want to do any counteroffensives. He and his team are making hundreds of millions of dollars. Everything can end in a heartbeat if the attack fails. Billions of dollars and euros are coming to Ukraine. You have steady income, all of your friends are making a killing off all that foreign aid. You're portrayed as global hero. You don't want all of this to end.

Zelensky became a hostage of the image he and most importantly Western media created for him. After he, his team, many US and NATO officials claimed Ukraine will defeat Russia this summer Ukrainian army will have to deliver or Zelensky and Ukraine could pay a very heavy price.

NATO and Ukraine expected Russia to conduct big winter counteroffensive, some even predicted attacks from Belarus. It never happened. I wonder if it was initially planned to defend, inflict losses on Russian forces and only then conduct big Ukrainian counteroffensive.

Instead Russia decided not to waste resources, play a long game. Build defenses, train more mobilized troops. Knowing Ukraine is the one under time pressure and not Russia. Forcing Ukraine to attack and become vulnerable. With Ukraine risking to run into Russian defenses, air strikes, drones and artillery. There is no surprise factor anymore that was there in Kharkov region. Suddenly some Ukrainian and NATO officials say people shouldn't expect Ukraine to make giant gains as predicted before.

Since Kharkov and Kherson retreats Russia began to use Lancet and Shahed drones with great success. Also upgraded glide bombs to strike Ukrainian positions from a more or less safe distance. NATO generals in charge are fully aware, knowing this will be nothing like Kharkov.
 

phrozenflame

Junior Member
Registered Member
The truth is that Zelensky doesn't want to do any counteroffensives. He and his team are making hundreds of millions of dollars. Everything can end in a heartbeat if the attack fails. Billions of dollars and euros are coming to Ukraine. You have steady income, all of your friends are making a killing off all that foreign aid. You're portrayed as global hero. You don't want all of this to end.

Zelensky became a hostage of the image he and most importantly Western media created for him. After he, his team, many US and NATO officials claimed Ukraine will defeat Russia this summer Ukrainian army will have to deliver or Zelensky and Ukraine could pay a very heavy price.

NATO and Ukraine expected Russia to conduct big winter counteroffensive, some even predicted attacks from Belarus. It never happened. I wonder if it was initially planned to defend, inflict losses on Russian forces and only then conduct big Ukrainian counteroffensive.

Instead Russia decided not to waste resources, play a long game. Build defenses, train more mobilized troops. Knowing Ukraine is the one under time pressure and not Russia. Forcing Ukraine to attack and become vulnerable. With Ukraine risking to run into Russian defenses, air strikes, drones and artillery. There is no surprise factor anymore that was there in Kharkov region. Suddenly some Ukrainian and NATO officials say people shouldn't expect Ukraine to make giant gains as predicted before.

Since Kharkov and Kherson retreats Russia began to use Lancet and Shahed drones with great success. Also upgraded glide bombs to strike Ukrainian positions from a more or less safe distance. NATO generals in charge are fully aware, knowing this will be nothing like Kharkov.
I disagree, because the gravy train depends on Ukraine making enough progress on the ground for continued support of western tax payers. And that is possible through a very hyped up counter offensive expected (expectation set by western media) to make rapid progress.

Even tho, now the media is trying to mellow down the expectations like 'Ukraine is still preparing' 'things are still being setup' from 'anytime now'.
 

Right_People

Junior Member
Registered Member
Well … no-one claimed the counteroffensive would start on May 1st … as such - and even if I‘m sure it is already going on, albeit at a much different level than many expect - we are not at Day 10 of „nothing happens and nothing will happen“ … just wait.
The ""leaks"" claimed offensive would start on 30th April.
Of course, something will happen, maybe even peace will be signed.
But we simply don't know what and where it will happen, no matter what we see and what is said and leaked.

There has been no Russian winter offensive.
Two-thirds of the spring has passed and there has been no Ukrainian offensive.

I am simply saying that.
 

baykalov

Senior Member
Registered Member
I disagree, because the gravy train depends on Ukraine making enough progress on the ground for continued support of western tax payers. And that is possible through a very hyped up counter offensive expected (expectation set by western media) to make rapid progress.

Even tho, now the media is trying to mellow down the expectations like 'Ukraine is still preparing' 'things are still being setup' from 'anytime now'.

No, even if Ukraine has a successful counteroffensive, the West hopes to have negotiations afterwards.

From a recent article in WSJ:
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Some U.S. and European officials said they believe that Ukraine’s planned spring offensive could pave the way for negotiations between Kyiv and Moscow by the end of the year, and that China could help bring Russia to the table. Still, they remain uncertain about Russia’s willingness to negotiate a cease-fire under Russian President Vladimir Putin.

The interest in negotiations brings Washington in closer alignment with some European countries, which are eager to see the conflict end, or at the very least moderate in intensity, and have been the most intent on discussing some resolution this year.

French President Emmanuel Macron has been the most explicit in pushing Ukraine to seek negotiations with the Kremlin after the spring offensive. Officials at the White House and State Department have long maintained that all wars end at the negotiating table, but said that it will require a genuine interest on the part of Russia to approach any talks in good faith. The military aid dispatched to Ukraine is designed to put Kyiv in a stronger negotiating position.

Key U.S. officials on the National Security Council are in favor of negotiations, according to European officials, while the State Department and the Central Intelligence Agency have been more skeptical, eager to see how the offensive goes before pitching for a diplomatic off-ramp.

Senior officials in Paris and Berlin who are familiar with their leaders’ discussions with President Biden say they expect the White House to attempt to facilitate talks following the Ukrainian offensive’s anticipated gains.

The aim is for Ukraine to regain important territory in the south, a development that could be interpreted as a success even if Russia retains chunks of territory its forces have occupied.

Olaf Scholz, the German chancellor, will host Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in Berlin this month on what is set to be his first trip to Germany since Russia invaded in February 2022. While Mr. Scholz won’t pressure Mr. Zelensky into talks, Mr. Biden is expected to signal to the Ukrainian leader that cease-fire talks might be opportune in the coming months, European officials said.

The push to negotiate comes in the midst of concern on both sides of the Atlantic that the scale of support provided by allies to Ukraine for the coming push will be hard to match in the future if the war grinds into a stalemate. The supply of ammunition is a key problem because Western industrial capacity has proven unable to meet its own demands while supporting Ukraine, several officials and industry leaders said.

A number of senior officials across European governments expressed concern about the high attrition rates of troops and materiel in Ukraine, whose population is less than one-third of Russia’s.


The European push for negotiations isn’t a consensus. Poland, the Baltic states, other smaller nations and some officials from the U.K. believe that Ukraine should be given the time it needs to make gains—even if the coming spring offensive doesn’t reshape the battlefield.

Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines said U.S. intelligence agencies assess that Mr. Putin has little interest in negotiating a definitive settlement of the conflict and is still assuming that the West’s will to support Ukraine will erode over time.

“We continue to assess that Putin most likely calculates that time works in his favor,” said Ms. Haines.

It couldn’t be determined what any sort of negotiations would look like, but officials in Paris and Berlin said they are interested in a broadly framed cease-fire agreement that would potentially involve China among its guarantors.

Western leaders are now slowly moving toward a consensus that halting the conflict might be the best option, said Fiona Hill, a former National Security Council official responsible for Russian policy, now with the Brookings Institution.

“This seems to be where we are trending,” she said. “Freeze the conflict and stop the slaughter, because everybody would like this to stop.”

Mr. Putin has shown no public sign of winding down the war or his objectives, despite mounting losses. Any durable arrangement will most likely involve Mr. Zelensky’s acceptance of occupation of Ukrainian territory by Russia, Ms. Hill said.

“Is it sufficient for Ukraine to have effectively given up territory and countless lives and to say, ‘OK, this is what we died for?’ ” Ms. Hill asked.
 

MixedReality

Junior Member
Registered Member
Rumours going on Telegram that Ukrainian general Zaluzhny has either been wounded or killed. He hasn’t been seen or heard in public for a while and now he has decided to skip a NATO meeting via videoconference he was supposed to attend. Apparently his Facebook profile is now locked.
 
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