The War in the Ukraine

T

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
There was a building in Bakhmut that the Ukrainians set a trap. As soon as they left, and Russians stormed in, they blew the building up.


A hideout of Ukrainian equipment got hit by missiles from the DPR. I am guessing either Tornado G or Tornado S, which are both used similar to HIMARS.


Russian artillery and BMP attack Ukrainian fortifications in Marinka. The more the city is reduced to rubble the less places you can shelter in, and the fewer places makes it easier to target.


Another destroyed M113.

 
S

SolarWarden

Junior Member
Registered Member
I guess is safe to say all of us in here whether we're pro Ukraine or pro Russia have been scratching our heads wondering what is up with the Russian air force performing so badly in Ukraine well sandbox uploaded a video hours ago giving his analysis.

It makes sense why the second or third largest air force in the world is performing really bad against Ukraine.
 
obj 705A

obj 705A

Junior Member
Registered Member
SolarWarden said:
I guess is safe to say all of us in here whether we're pro Ukraine or pro Russia have been scratching our heads wondering what is up with the Russian air force performing so badly in Ukraine well sandbox uploaded a video hours ago giving his analysis.

It makes sense why the second or third largest air force in the world is performing really bad against Ukraine.
Click to expand...
I didn't watch the full video but from the few bits that I watched I can tell his analysis is mostly BS, and some of his sources are Ukrainian sources, you know the same kind of sources that believed in the ghost of Kiev.

He is talking about supposed not enough training for pilots or whatever, that has nothing to do with why the Russian airforce isn't performing as well as it should.

The reason why Russia still doesn't have complete control of the airspace is because Ukraine is being constantly supplied with airdefence systems, as long as Ukraine's border with NATO remains open then the flow of these weapon systems will continue.

Furthermore the Russian military (including the airforce) was given the orders to minimise civilian casualties even if that means sacraficing Russian soldiers, and we have seen that in Mariupol for example when there were AFU militants in a building with civilian hostages in it, instead of just razing that building to the ground the Russians chose to evacuate the civilians from there even if that means sacraficing themselves.

Russia could not take control of the Ukrainian-NATO border to stop the flow of airdefence systems and other weapon systems, that is not the fault of the Russian military (whether it is the airforce or the ground force) but it is the fault of the political leadership. in this regard I agree with what Scott Ritter said regarding what was the strategy that Putin followed at the beginning of the war, he believes the reason why the Russians didn't use a large enough force to occupy Ukraine from the beginning was because Putin was actually afraid of the sanctions so he was hoping for a negotiated settlement to lift the sanctions off of Russia so he used a relatively small force hoping this force would be enough to scare Ukraine into accepting neutrality and an independent Donbass, and it was only after several rounds of talks with the Ukrainians have failed did Putin began to realise that a negotiated settlement was not gonna happen.

Then at later parts of the video you shared he talks about "lack of communication" between "different branches" and other things that this Youtuber analyst just pulls out of his a**.

We have seen how well a far much smaller Russian airforce performed in Syria, the Syrian military was losing ground rapidly but then when Russia sent just 28 or so strike aircrafts to Syria that was enough to change the tide of battle decisively in Syria's favor. You know why? That is because unlike Ukraine the FSA/AlQaeda was not being constantly supplied with S-300 systems and instead the best thing they could hope for was some MANPADS and that's it. Furthermore the Russian airforce in Syria wasn't given any ridiculous orders to minimise civilian casualties, if there are civilians in an area then they give the civilians and the militants a chance to evacuate for few days after which they just carpet bomb the area meter by meter, once everything there is dead the Syrian soldiers move in and declare control of the city.
 
T

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
SolarWarden said:
I guess is safe to say all of us in here whether we're pro Ukraine or pro Russia have been scratching our heads wondering what is up with the Russian air force performing so badly in Ukraine well sandbox uploaded a video hours ago giving his analysis.

It makes sense why the second or third largest air force in the world is performing really bad against Ukraine.
Click to expand...

I can't remember whether the Ukrainian air force has managed a single credible air to air kill in the entire war without involving mutually crashing into a Shahed.
 
O

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
SolarWarden said:
I guess is safe to say all of us in here whether we're pro Ukraine or pro Russia have been scratching our heads wondering what is up with the Russian air force performing so badly in Ukraine well sandbox uploaded a video hours ago giving his analysis.

It makes sense why the second or third largest air force in the world is performing really bad against Ukraine.
Click to expand...
Just from the title of video I know its bs. Pilots are the least of the Russian Airforce's issues.

The rot as usual starts from the head (you-know-who) by corrupt appointments. Then you also have incorrect force assesments and flawed force building. Wrong doctrine, wrong procurement, wrong threat assesments. To sum up, its all wrong

When I say wrong, I mean wrong in that all these capabilities and doctrines are not suited to match up Russia's ambitions. It wanted to counter NATO airforce, ok, Russian Airforce responded with what it could do. Then Russian policy makers also wanted to militarily dominate its neighbours, well that meant that Russian Airforce investments to counter NATO obviously weren't suited for that task, they needed a more Western-style Airforce for that, but then they also needed to counter NATO at the same time

That's a fundamental contradiction here, to counter smaller countries they needed a heavy focused airforce on SEAD and Air-to-Ground missions. And against NATO, SEAD and Air-to-Ground investments would be worth about zero lol. So the Russian Airforce decided to go with a counter-NATO emphasis and left the counter-small-countries mission to the ground force. That's it.

What's the problem here, is it the Airforce's fault or the policy makers fault which tasked it with fundamentally contradictory missions? Wisely they focused on Russia's biggest threat, NATO, and left the "small meat" to the ground force.

IMO in the current Russian military I see Russia's Army at much much biggest fault than the Airforce. And even then the biggest fault lies not in the military but at the you-know-who who has been at the helm for almost 2 decades now. As a certain president once said: "The buck stops here"
 
R

Right_People

Junior Member
Registered Member
obj 705A said:
I didn't watch the full video but from the few bits that I watched I can tell his analysis is mostly BS, and some of his sources are Ukrainian sources, you know the same kind of sources that believed in the ghost of Kiev.

He is talking about supposed not enough training for pilots or whatever, that has nothing to do with why the Russian airforce isn't performing as well as it should.

The reason why Russia still doesn't have complete control of the airspace is because Ukraine is being constantly supplied with airdefence systems, as long as Ukraine's border with NATO remains open then the flow of these weapon systems will continue.

Furthermore the Russian military (including the airforce) was given the orders to minimise civilian casualties even if that means sacraficing Russian soldiers, and we have seen that in Mariupol for example when there were AFU militants in a building with civilian hostages in it, instead of just razing that building to the ground the Russians chose to evacuate the civilians from there even if that means sacraficing themselves.

Russia could not take control of the Ukrainian-NATO border to stop the flow of airdefence systems and other weapon systems, that is not the fault of the Russian military (whether it is the airforce or the ground force) but it is the fault of the political leadership. in this regard I agree with what Scott Ritter said regarding what was the strategy that Putin followed at the beginning of the war, he believes the reason why the Russians didn't use a large enough force to occupy Ukraine from the beginning was because Putin was actually afraid of the sanctions so he was hoping for a negotiated settlement to lift the sanctions off of Russia so he used a relatively small force hoping this force would be enough to scare Ukraine into accepting neutrality and an independent Donbass, and it was only after several rounds of talks with the Ukrainians have failed did Putin began to realise that a negotiated settlement was not gonna happen.

Then at later parts of the video you shared he talks about "lack of communication" between "different branches" and other things that this Youtuber analyst just pulls out of his a**.

We have seen how well a far much smaller Russian airforce performed in Syria, the Syrian military was losing ground rapidly but then when Russia sent just 28 or so strike aircrafts to Syria that was enough to change the tide of battle decisively in Syria's favor. You know why? That is because unlike Ukraine the FSA/AlQaeda was not being constantly supplied with S-300 systems and instead the best thing they could hope for was some MANPADS and that's it. Furthermore the Russian airforce in Syria wasn't given any ridiculous orders to minimise civilian casualties, if there are civilians in an area then they give the civilians and the militants a chance to evacuate for few days after which they just carpet bomb the area meter by meter, once everything there is dead the Syrian soldiers move in and declare control of the city.
Click to expand...
Speaking of air forces.
The Russian channel "Fighter Bomber", which was the first to announce and publish a picture of the now famous Russian "JDAM" kit, said today that Russia can produce several hundred of these kits a day if necessary.
More interestingly the Russian "JDAM" kit, the UMPC (Unified Planning and Correction Module), now has a version already accepted in service for the FAB-1500.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
S

SolarWarden

Junior Member
Registered Member
Overbom said:
Just from the title of video I know its bs. Pilots are the least of the Russian Airforce's issues.

The rot as usual starts from the head (you-know-who) by corrupt appointments. Then you also have incorrect force assesments and flawed force building. Wrong doctrine, wrong procurement, wrong threat assesments. To sum up, its all wrong

When I say wrong, I mean wrong in that all these capabilities and doctrines are not suited to match up Russia's ambitions. It wanted to counter NATO airforce, ok, Russian Airforce responded with what it could do. Then Russian policy makers also wanted to militarily dominate its neighbours, well that meant that Russian Airforce investments to counter NATO obviously weren't suited for that task, they needed a more Western-style Airforce for that, but then they also needed to counter NATO at the same time

That's a fundamental contradiction here, to counter smaller countries they needed a heavy focused airforce on SEAD and Air-to-Ground missions. And against NATO, SEAD and Air-to-Ground investments would be worth about zero lol. So the Russian Airforce decided to go with a counter-NATO emphasis and left the counter-small-countries mission to the ground force. That's it.

What's the problem here, is it the Airforce's fault or the policy makers fault which tasked it with fundamentally contradictory missions? Wisely they focused on Russia's biggest threat, NATO, and left the "small meat" to the ground force.

IMO in the current Russian military I see Russia's Army at much much biggest fault than the Airforce. And even then the biggest fault lies not in the military but at the you-know-who who has been at the helm for almost 2 decades now. As a certain president once said: "The buck stops here"
Click to expand...
The video goes into the corruption, doctrine, and tactics. It also explains how vast majority of SU-35/30sm/34's that have been lost over Ukraine were by Russian air defenses which he got the info from Rybar.
 
G

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Russia's air force has done plenty of missions. Any Ukrainian aircraft which flies has a high probability of getting shot down by long range standoff weapons while the Russian fighters act with impunity themselves.

A lot of the gripes people have with the performance of the Russian Air Force is with regards to them not doing more missions deep inside Ukrainian territory over their supply lines and the like. But you have to remember that when the Cold War ended the Ukrainians had the most dense and modern IADS in the world, with dozens of S-300 and Buk brigades. No one has ever gone against such a deep IADS ever. And yes you can argue that Russia did not invest into SEAD properly, but investing into SEAD would have been pointless against insurgents in Syria, or against NATO, which would have been the likely targets Russia was going to go against.

Most of the aircraft lost were doing ground attack missions over Ukrainian airspace within range of Ukrainian IADS.

I consider the lack of investment into the acquisition of precision guided munitions, drones, and advanced artillery systems to have been a mistake on the part of Russia. But at least on the first two the Russians are finally investing some funds into it with systems like Geran-2, Lancet, and Izdeliye 305 coming online. As for the SEAD mission, that was supposed to be taken care of by Su-34NVO with dedicated pod, which might enter service soon.
 
R

Right_People

Junior Member
Registered Member
SolarWarden said:
The video goes into the corruption, doctrine, and tactics. It also explains how vast majority of SU-35/30sm/34's that have been lost over Ukraine were by Russian air defenses which he got the info from Rybar.
Click to expand...
That was a known problem russian generals have been talking that their friend or foe systems are shit, having also Aeroespace and Army operate S300 type bateries didnt help.
A month or two ago, all anti-air units of the army went under the control of aeroespace forces.

Russians learn, but slow ...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top