The War in the Ukraine

MarKoz81

Junior Member
Registered Member
Would love someone to explain why Russia persists with attacking across a huge front instead of concentrating their forces to achieve a few breakthroughs in Ukrainian defensive lines and then moving in quickly to exploit the openings

I just dont see how these huge offensives across such a big front can work in Russia's favour unless they somehow more than doubled their committed forces

Ukraine receives intelligence from NATO so nothing that Russia does on an operational or strategic scale is secret unless elaborate deception is employed and Russia has no resources left for any type of large-scale operational deception anymore.

2023-02-11_Ru forces & losses.jpg

Russia lost over 1500 MBTs, 3000 IFV/APCs, 600 artillery and 150 rocket launchers. Rule of thumb is that for each lost vehicle another should be assumed to be out of service due to damage and wear. This means that if the entire ground force, naval infantry and VDV were deployed then from initial strength it has remaining: ~0% MBTs (!), ~60% IFV/APCs, ~80% artillery. Obviously those numbers are notional only and are reinforced by equipment brought out of storage but it shows why Russia can't perform any significant offensive operation. There's simply not enough equipment available to be sent into combat while the rest is being restored to combat readiness.

Also note the proportion of lost equipment. If the war resembles WW1 it is because that's what's available - infantry and artillery.

Another issue is manpower. Russia wasted needlessly contract personnel in the first phases of invasion because it refused to mobilize first immediately after declaring SMO and second immediately after retreating from the north. It therefore lost its most valuable personnel which is only now (since september) being replaced by reservists who need to be re-trained first. Because the mobilization was ordered only after Ukraine successfully recaptured parts of territory it had to be immediately put to use which lowered its effectiveness. Untrained reservists were thrown into battle with disastrous results. Also because Russia deployed almost its entire ground force to Ukraine approximately half of all the mobilized in the first wave had to be deployed to the units that were moved to Ukraine so that the garrisons are not empty.

Only now the numbers are getting to where sustained offensive operations are possible but their scale is debatable because training takes time and the first wave has been at the front for less than 6 months. Russian conscript model is intended to maintain manpower for defensive purposes. For all other purposes contract service was established but in the ground forces it never reached above 30-40% with majority of contract soldiers being specialists. VDV and Naval Infantry have higher ratio which is why they are being used as shock troops. Mobilization also helps to plug shortages of auxiliary troops which are necessary for sustainment and maneuver. You need approximately three men in the rear for each man fighting - and that's just the deployed force. Russian casualties are estimated to be as high as 200k total including wounded.

All those factors combined are why military analysts pointed to February/March as the earliest time for a potential Russian offensive with spring being more likely. A stable front with minimal offensive action from the enemy allows to recuperate forces but that has only been ~4 months.

All of this above explains why Russia can barely afford to push along the existing frontline. Any large-scale deception requires extra forces to be diverted away from the frontlines and placed in one area (exposed) for deception and another for attack (concealed).

So the only type of deception that Russia has at its disposal is a feint using maneuver. And for that Russian ground forces are woefully ill-suited because it fights with cold war structure, equipment and doctrine. An IBCT or SBCT type of formation could successfully perform such feint but Russia has no such unit. It has motor rifle BTGs.

This is a motor rifle BTG:
BTG.jpg
Note that the logistical detachment is only intended for frontline support. It distributes supplies inside the BTG. All the materiel that is delivered to the BTG has to be brought by another logistical unit.

This is ~142 vehicles and the absolute minimum number of soldiers is ~400. Now imagine hiding this in the field.

Now imagine moving this formation over 100km from point A to B considering that over long distances a tank can reliably move on the road only at about 40km/h and the standard marching loss is 5-8% meaning that many vehicles will break down during march over 100km. It takes three hours just to move from A to B, additional time is necessary for preparation before and some time for preparation before deployment if someone is willing to risk going to battle directly from march. While on the move formation will form a visible column that can be detected by satellites - and likely more than once considering orbiting time.

Detected formation entering within effective artillery range will be attacked meaning that it can be struck at ~40km from the frontline by GMLRS and then at ~20km by howitzers and Grads. See the failed assault at Vuhledar from 6 Feb. or the failed crossing across Donets in April/May (?) for reference.

Russia began the invasion in such a ridiculous manner because it was the only way to hide from the US and NATO when and where they would attack, what forces would be used, what were the objectives etc. There was no mobilization, fielded units were dispersed along the entire border as BTGs, resources were insufficient for any prolonged campaign even for portion of the force. This was why nobody believed there would be an invasion because all the intelligence indicated that an invasion would fail. And it did.

Another alternative would be helicopter assault but such operation requires trained troops and those are only in VDV which is used as stopgap and assault force along the front. Russia doesn't have three or four VDV brigades available for helicopter assault because it requires at least double that for rotation, reserves etc. The helicopter losses are also high but equipment is not as limiting as lack of trained manpower. 3-4 brigades could perform an operation that could easily break the front in 1-2 places but then what?

Fundamentally your soldiers won't fight unless they have no other option or they know they will win. If you start an offensive operation and it fails and people die, nobody will join another one. That was the problem that Russia encountered following the disaster in February/March. Ukrainians had no other option but Russians had the option of not fighting and this is why Russian army stumbled so badly in April. The army as a collective might be convinced it will win if everyone does their job because of numbers but the soldiers are convinced that they will die and so they don't do their job and the army loses.

Allegedly Russians are massing for another offensive with sigificant forces prepared but so far no details are being given. Perhaps Russians are still in pre-deployment stage. Perhaps the numbers refer to total figures of assets including those at the front. In latter case the offensive won't have the necessary power to do more than to capture Donbas and at a significant cost. If those are additional assets then their quality is debatable.

This was from 2016. "TAK" - yes, "NIE" - no.

Russia tanks 2016.jpg

Since 2016 the production should match the numbers from TMB in the first table.

Considering losses and replacement, whatever comes extra - especially in thousands - in this upcoming offensive will be even more "cold war" than the current modernized force. There's some probability that these vehicles will be upgraded to an extent but not much.

All in all those are not conditions for any large scale operations with elaborate operational deception. It will by just a brute force push and possibly the one variable is the speculated takeover of Belarus opening the front there (and also likely resistance). Lukashenka has still not shown himself since his plane returned from Moscow. I don't see options for anything else but we'll see.

Does anyone else think that Mike Koffman is basically incompetent?

He is an intelligent guy, extremely well read and has a good position (at IISS) but he lacks a military background and his analysis is (typically Ukrainian biased) armchair general level stuff everytime I see him. I think his main weakness is that he does not understand military tactics, strategy, and operations very well. Basically an armchair general expert.

Monty Python had the sketch about a joke that was so funny that it killed everyone who heard it.

This joke is so unfunny that it kills the will to live in anyone who has the mental faculty to understand it.

The possibility that this is not a joke is too horrifying to consider.

Now if everyone could excuse me. I need to kill myself.
 

Zichan

Junior Member
Registered Member
No no that is not how it works. it doesnt matter how many plans you have, once it is set in motion it cannot get changed on a whim like kofman seem to suggest. planning and preparation for offensive and defensive actions are very very different. and this is where kofman's lack of military experience is showing. he thinks that one day russia was sitting around waiting to defend against an ukrainian attack, then suddenly gerasimov became the commander so they took out a plan for attack from their backpacks and went with it? he is actually giving the russian army a lot of credit if he thinks it can do that. this is not even taking into consideration the vast difference in the resources required between operations in the summer and operations in the winter.

scrolling back a few pages, many in this forum including myself expected a russian winter offensive. and i have opined a few times that winter will favor russia over ukraine for many reasons. so far it looks like i am right and kofman is wrong.
And what is your evidence that the plans were set in motion while Surovikin was still in charge?
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Ukrainian convoy gets ambushed. What's different about this is that the Russian squad is using grenade launchers. To have a convoy ambushed by close range weapons suggest the Ukrainians do not know where the actual front line is, or the Russians have stealth penetrated this deeply that it's not reported. This one is in the Kupyansk front.

 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Blog entry at @milchronicles in Telegram. A field repair centers for M777 howitzers was discovered in the Liman front. This started with M777s were withdrawn after Lancet attacks and the howitzers were tracked by drones. The inclusion of Orlan 30s means Krasnopols were used on the strike.

VSU lost “ repair center ” M777 howitzers in the Liman direction: Details

In early February, between the villages of Drobyshevo and Novoselovka, 40 km west of Kremenna, a missile strike was launched at the center for the repair and maintenance of foreign howitzers of 155 mm caliber. According to “ Military Chronicle ”, during the attack on the aircraft object, at least three were destroyed and four more guns were seriously damaged. Presumably, the replacement trunks for M777 howitzers were also stored there, transferred to Ukrainian artillery units.

According to preliminary data, the guns belonged to units of the 43rd and 45th artillery brigades and were damaged during the fighting for Soledar, after which they were delivered for repair. During the inspection, it turned out that the repair center of the Armed Forces, in which there were equipment that had undergone artillery training under the JMTG-U and UNIFIER program at the Yavorovsky training ground, will be able to restore no more than two damaged M777 guns and one 155 mm FH-70 howitzer.

At the center for the restoration of combat effectiveness of Western howitz, aircraft of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation took drones “ Lancet ”. After one of the February attacks on the positions of the 45th artillery brigade with barrage munitions, the Armed Forces units began an emergency withdrawal and sending a large number of weapons of western production to a camouflaged repair base 40 km west of Kremenna.

Arms dispatch routes were opened by “ Orlan-30 ” drones and after several days of observation, the repair company was hit. According to preliminary data, the destruction of guns and sets of spare parts for them will lead to, that at the end of February – the beginning of March, the Armed Forces may encounter difficulties in repairing US and NATO howitzers near the front line. Another 155 mm caliber repair center is allegedly located in Kharkov, which is why the process of sending, restoring, testing and delivering the gun back to the units of the Armed Forces can last for two to three months.
 

Cult Icon

Junior Member
Registered Member
No no that is not how it works. it doesnt matter how many plans you have, once it is set in motion it cannot get changed on a whim like kofman seem to suggest. planning and preparation for offensive and defensive actions are very very different. and this is where kofman's lack of military experience is showing. he thinks that one day russia was sitting around waiting to defend against an ukrainian attack, then suddenly gerasimov became the commander so they took out a plan for attack from their backpacks and went with it? he is actually giving the russian army a lot of credit if he thinks it can do that. this is not even taking into consideration the vast difference in the resources required between operations in the summer and operations in the winter.

scrolling back a few pages, many in this forum including myself expected a russian winter offensive. and i have opined a few times that winter will favor russia over ukraine for many reasons. so far it looks like i am right and kofman is wrong.

There is evidence of Russian preliminary operations and minor-offensive moves but no evidence of a major offensive. When Russia restarts a full offensive, the buildup signs would be obvious and impossible to hide like in 2021-2022. Afterwards there would be a lot of new formations on the line from the military districts. So far there is a build up of WMD units in the Luhansk Oblast.

I suggest that the infatuation with possible numbers of the failed operational level weapon, the tank is missing the point that the artillery ammunition is the Russian army's trump card. If they bring in millions of rounds and dramatically increase the shooting and ground assaults that's when the major offensive will begin.

The Russian civil war and the Generals that came out had the idea of continuous offensive and 'attack is a form of offense' that was tailored to the peculiarities of the Russian front (extremely long frontlines with relatively low tactical density). Like a low-pressure attack everywhere, to pin down the enemy and rob them of initiative. There are signs of this behavior from the Russians everywhere up to the fall of 2022, I suspect that it is connected to these Soviet concepts (they are after all, originated from Soviet concepts).

The behavior of the Wagner Group in Bakhmut can be compared to a operational-scale pinning operation, while 'stormtroopers' pin down 30% of the Ukrainian army with low-level pressure everywhere and then they can plastered by artillery and airstrikes.

As a result of these Soviet concepts the Russians in WW2 executed a practice of 'continuous', broad front operations. You have the big'name' offensives like Uranus and Bagration and in-between them the much more numerous- smaller and less flashy operations. The big offensives were typically the result of accumulated trained units and material, while the latter, less resourced ones put continuous pressure on the enemy. Typically however, the less resourced offensives paid a much heavier butcher's bill in casualties relative to results but it kept the enemy on the strategic defensive.

The less resourced United States 7th Army under General Patch in Western Europe in 1944-1945 also pursued a similar, broad front approach.

"ISW has observed elements of Russia’s WMD, along with some supplemental Central Military District (CMD), Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republic (DNR and LNR) and airborne (VDV) elements, arrayed along the Luhansk Oblast frontline, with a specific concentration of units along the Svatove-Kreminna line. The WMD has fully committed both rifle divisions of the 20th Combined Arms Army (CAA)—the 144th Motor Rifle Division (144th MRD) and 3rd Motor Rifle Division (3rd MRD)—to the Svatove-Kreminna line in Luhansk Oblast.[3] ISW has observed both of the 144th MRD’s rifle regiments (the 254th Guards Motor Rifle Regiment and the 488th Guards Motor Rifle Regiment) and its tank regiment (the 59th Guards Tank Regiment) committed along the Svatove-Kreminna line but has only observed the 752nd and 252nd Motorized Rifle Regiments of the 3rd MRD by name.[4] ISW has also observed reports that elements of the 4thTank Division of the 1st Guards Tank Army, of the 26th Tank Regiment of the 47thTank Division of the 1st Guards Tank Army, and of the 27th Separate Tank Brigade of 1stGuards Tank Army are deployed along the line from Svatove north toward Kupyansk.[5] The CMD has additionally committed elements of the 6th Tank Regiment of the 90th Tank Division to the Svatove area, and unspecified elements in the Lyman direction west of Kreminna.[6] DNR units and ad hoc formations are apparently supporting WMD operations along the Svatove-Kreminna line in limited numbers, and LNR units (particularly the 4th Motorized Rifle Regiment) are engaged in the Bilohorivka area south of Kreminna.[7] Limited VDV elements, particularly of the 76th Guards Air Assault Division and of the 98th Airborne Division, appear to be supporting WMD operations in the Kreminna area as well.[8]"


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Luhansk%20Oblast%20ORBAT%20FEB%202023%20%281%29.png


Corrected typos:

The Soviet concept of "Attack is a form of defense".

Also, US 6th Army group (Devers) and 7th Army (Patch)
 
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Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
Monty Python had the sketch about a joke that was so funny that it killed everyone who heard it.

This joke is so unfunny that it kills the will to live in anyone who has the mental faculty to understand it.

The possibility that this is not a joke is too horrifying to consider.

Now if everyone could excuse me. I need to kill myself.
You (and nearly everyone) imagine a target envisioned by themself, and walking back from the self projected target analyse the current and past steps of the Russians, and decide they are bad and was bad.

Whats happens, if we accept that the Russians are inteligent humans, and capable to make decisions ?

And based on the steps that they did calculate the targets that they wish to reach?
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Many destroyed vehicles shown here, also showing the use of civilian vehicles by the Ukrainians, one of which looks like a mail delivery van. I also see a tank. The video also establishes the Akhmat brigade of the Chechens now at Bihogorovka.


Spectacular firing of a Ukrainian BMP-2 rapidly firing it's 30mm gun and a missile at Bakhmut. Next is a Russian BMP-2M doing it's thing at Kremennaya.


 

Botnet

Junior Member
Registered Member
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the average life expectancy of a Ukrainian soldier on Bakhmut frontlines is only four hours according to former US marine with Ukraine's foreign legions. This suggest a high rate of mortality for Ukrainian soldiers in contrast to what the media is reporting.

NO low quality commenting
 
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