The War in the Ukraine

sheogorath

sheogorath

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dropout003 said:
Question for those who know their history: If you had to guess where Russia stands closer to right now? closer to the Russia of russo-japanese war or the Russia of post 1941 war against the Nazis.
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WW2 didn't start great for the soviets either, despite the fact they were expecting the nazi invasion. The purges of the 1930's took their toll on the Red Army's hability to fight effectively but the Soviet Union had a massive strategic depth and industrial base which allowed them to easily plug the gaps in manpower, build equipment in massive quantities and they learnt from their earlier mistakes which allowed for them to turn things around by the end of Stalingrad.

Keep in mind the nazis made it to the outskirts of Moscow, only 60km's away from the city itself.



supersnoop said:
f these are from the US stock, they would be the top models and not the nerfed Export versions given to Iraq that were taken out (allegedly/possibly) by HJ-8
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Iraqi M1A1M's are US surplus tanks, though. The ones they got never got the DU inserts anyway.
 
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Stealthflanker

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The 5V55 missile kinda makes it bit of a something. It's either that front doesnt worth the expense of 48N6 or that 5V55 is used for something else maybe yes attacking ground target but considering Ukraine also operate S-300PT and PS-'s how many S-300 impacts are Russians or failure of Ukrainian S-300's. Russia may have newer stock of 5V55's kinda make me curious tho if they still make 5V55RM's for Navy.

The other thing is of course.. where are the rest of the components ?. a convoy of S-400 may consist of at least 8 launchers, 1 engagement radar and one command post or in case of S-400 there would be accompanying 96L6 radar.
 
sheogorath

sheogorath

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Stealthflanker said:
The other thing is of course.. where are the rest of the components ?. a convoy of S-400 may consist of at least 8 launchers, 1 engagement radar and one command post or in case of S-400 there would be accompanying 96L6 radar.
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Maybe it was an accident, caught fire or Ukranian saboteurs got to it while on the move?
 
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Lokos

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supersnoop said:
Maybe there are concerns about Abrams being captured?

If these are from the US stock, they would be the top models and not the nerfed Export versions given to Iraq that were taken out (allegedly/possibly) by HJ-8



Even Leopard is still a problem. Distance from the fronts to Poland is still like 2000 Km round trip. There is nothing quick about travelling that distance
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Don't think thats a concern. M1 Abrams has been around for 40 years and they are definitely not sending in the latest variants.

Atomicfrog said:
Having a second army that can walk in and continue without touching the defensive line is the only way they can do a real mechanised push. If not it's infantry push with some support. That second army need to be sound, with logistic supplies attached and trained. If not you just do replacement of losses. If Ukraine can build that in the rear with the new equipment or their remaining equipment we will see but it will not be in the next 6 months and how know what will happen until then.
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Thats another thing, those new toys aren't pushing in as 1 army. They'll mostly be trickled in whenever it's ready. This is not meant to end the war but the prolong it.
 
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Atomicfrog

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Lokos said:
Thats another thing, those new toys aren't pushing in as 1 army. They'll mostly be trickled in whenever it's ready. This is not meant to end the war but the prolong it.
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Big chance that they will use them like you say, it's a big waste of life and equipment. Nothing will be efficient and will just fill gaps. It's hard to imagine all the stuff is gone tho, they have certainly some depth in equipment waiting everywhere.

The lost no ground apprauch take a giant toll on the Ukrainian side. For a while it was looking like Ukraine chain of command were buying time to build something at the rear but it's more the Russian side that have taken that time to reinforce.
 
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memfisa

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SolarWarden said:
Is that a fact or your bias opinion? US has thousands of Abrams in storage they can send 200 and another 400 for spare parts. Reason why US doesn't want to send Abrams FOR NOW is because logistic and not some made up fantasy that US doesn't want to see their Abrams blown up that is just childish conclusion.

US would have to set up a huge maitenance hub in eastern Poland and train Ukrainains on tanks that uses a jet engine. Leopards are far more easily maintenance friendly than Abrams especially to Ukraine who has never used a western MBT. Damage Leopards can be taken to Poland and repaired with a quick turn around sice Poland already has a hub to fix damage Leopards.
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Someone better call the pentagon and let them know all those hundreds of Abrams they have on maneouvers in Poland and the baltics have nowhere to be repaired in Poland because they could be in for major problems and serious break downs. I'd hate to see them unable to maintain that expeditionary force afterall.

The US wants to sell used M1s to European countries that won't be able to replace their Leopards. Then it also gets the sweet maintenance contracts. If no one sees M1s exploding in Ukraine, more countries will be happy to line up and buy in.

It is for sure by design that the US forces its competition to destroy its reputation while being unwilling to take part itself.
 
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HereToSeePics

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SlothmanAllen said:
Doesn't the US have thousands of M1s (of all variants)? Didn't they operate them in Iraq and Afghanistan continually for more than a decade?
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SolarWarden said:
Is that a fact or your bias opinion? US has thousands of Abrams in storage they can send 200 and another 400 for spare parts. Reason why US doesn't want to send Abrams FOR NOW is because logistic and not some made up fantasy that US doesn't want to see their Abrams blown up that is just childish conclusion.
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I think the challenge is multifold - the use of M1's in Iraq was supported by US air supremacy that Ukraine doesn't have. Another is that during the Gulf war, M1's where part of
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consisting of multiple armored brigades and multiple combined arms battalions within a brigade - each individual M1 had multiple tanks and armored units pushing along side it. From what we've seen in Ukraine, they're using armor in solo or small tactical units for hit-and-run type missions and thats why we see videos of countless UAF vehicles getting picked off by drones or destroyed in 1v1 or 1v2 type engagements with Russian tanks.
 
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Lokos

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Key NATO nations failed to reach an agreement on Friday about delivering Leopard 2 battle tanks to Ukraine, German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius has said. The issue was discussed at a meeting of Western military donors to Kiev at the US Ramstein air base in Germany.
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Looks like Ukraine not getting any leopards anytime soon. It remains to be seen if Poland will just say eff it and send their leopards regardless.
 
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