The War in the Ukraine

Zichan

Junior Member
Registered Member
Funny that they don't talk about it turning in circle in fire before going for the kindergarden :

So convenient, no foul play, lol.
Some eyewitnesses right across the crash site reported heavy fog conditions and did not even see a helicopter before it crashed. I expect that Airbus will be involved in the investigation and will learn more in due time.
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
Of course, it's more complicated than I said, but also isn't so simple like "OMG the bridges in Ukraine will collapse as soon as they see first 60+t tank". Of course they will be inspected for state before and after, they will use trailers because it's faster and safer etc. but its war and bringing tanks to the battlefield is more important than will that bridge collapse 10 or even 20 years earlier than planned. So, to say that Western tanks can't arrive from Lvov to say Bakhmut because of bridges- is nonsence.
Afaik the issue is less bridge collapse and more that, if it takes a ton of extra time to get tanks over obstacles like bridges, that's extra time where the tanks can be attacked. Also if something struggles to clear normal roads due to weight, off-road and shitty weather won't be kind to it.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
How does the 400 to 500k math work? 200-125+300 = 375k. You can maybe take another 25k off from casualties. That comes to 350k. If there was no casualty and take low end of expired contract it is 400k top.
So roughly 200K (initial force)
minus 100-150K expired contracts (these contracts were later extended indefinitely, so added them back)
plus additional 300K mobilized reservists
equals roughly ~500K minus XXX casualties.
 

abc123

Junior Member
Registered Member
Afaik the issue is less bridge collapse and more that, if it takes a ton of extra time to get tanks over obstacles like bridges, that's extra time where the tanks can be attacked. Also if something struggles to clear normal roads due to weight, off-road and shitty weather won't be kind to it.

On the other hand, enemy MIGHT attack them, and maybe it will not ( considering Russian level of competence so far at least ) attack them. While, not having them on the battlefield, doeing what they need to do- is defeat by itself.
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
On the other hand, enemy MIGHT attack them, and maybe it will not ( considering Russian level of competence so far at least ) attack them. While, not having them on the battlefield, doeing what they need to do- is defeat by itself.
Well I'm not the one in charge of NATO. If I was the leader of America, I'd want to commit hundreds of tanks as well as enough artillery to support such a formation, because tanks in storage at home are doing nothing, might as well use them even if they won't be very efficient. Assuming I want to win the proxy war or at least get more leverage to my side.

But clearly for them there is some sort of concern among American ranks, either a lack of faith in own capabilities or a lack of trust in Ukraine.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
US knows their Abram tanks need to work in combined-arms and strong logistics (fuel) to be effective, and Ukraine lacks either of these. It's not even the lack of confidence of their own equipment or in Ukraine, it's just sending a ton of equipment without the structure needed to make it operate effectively is a futile effort.
 

abc123

Junior Member
Registered Member
Well I'm not the one in charge of NATO. If I was the leader of America, I'd want to commit hundreds of tanks as well as enough artillery to support such a formation, because tanks in storage at home are doing nothing, might as well use them even if they won't be very efficient. Assuming I want to win the proxy war or at least get more leverage to my side.

But clearly for them there is some sort of concern among American ranks, either a lack of faith in own capabilities or a lack of trust in Ukraine.
OR, they are afraid of a catastrophic Ukrainean sucess ( where they will rout the Russians from Ukraine ) and that might cause all sorts of things, like nukes flying...
 

Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
Well I'm not the one in charge of NATO. If I was the leader of America, I'd want to commit hundreds of tanks as well as enough artillery to support such a formation, because tanks in storage at home are doing nothing, might as well use them even if they won't be very efficient. Assuming I want to win the proxy war or at least get more leverage to my side.

But clearly for them there is some sort of concern among American ranks, either a lack of faith in own capabilities or a lack of trust in Ukraine.
They are giving just enough for the conflict to continue.

M1A1 are clearly fuel guzzling monsters a bit like t-80 Turbine tanks... drinking more than twice than piston relatives. If logistics are good I don't see a problem using them, if they lack fuel already, imagine what they will need to fuel these.
 
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