The War in the Ukraine

sheogorath said:

PAC-3 do have Link-16 capability which would mean they can receive data from E-3's in the area, though, which would allow the batteries to operate without turning on their own radars.

Of course, that will depend on whether they do receive PAC-3 which is unlikely given that these are far more essential for the US strategy in the Pacific, so it is more likely they receive PAC-2's or even earlier variants.

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E-3 is too far away, means the radar of it can't pick up the small cruise missiles as arrive. only close to the boarded, but even Liviv is out of the detection area.
And if Russia wish they can easly jam all E-3 from Belorus/Russian territory. Basic math, if the radar has to detect something on 300 km then a jammer on 1200 km can mask the target.

Biscuits said:

Patriot does not exactly have a good record against projectiles. They should however work well against planes, providing more pressure on the Russian Air force.

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True that it would work better on planes but it is not going to help against a whole onslaught of missiles racing down on the grid. Not to mention that Russia has a whole lot of them (along with being replenish able) and ultimately as proven in Saudi Arabia, it’s not infallible. Still with the US industrial capacity, now many of these patriots can be provided and how soon can they be delivered and ultimately how effective will they be in an Ukraine without a functioning grid. Not to mention that Russia is flirting with the idea of using even greater escalations once these patriots make it to Ukraine, this isn’t going to end well

I would have more faith to SAMP/T tho as it's much newer generation than what US might likely provide. The Active radar homing alone is pretty much improvement over S-300PS's SAGG or Patriot's TVM.

Anlsvrthng said:

I think many didn't realised that Ukraine had (has) the second best air defense system in the world.

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At best it was 3rd, but more likely 4th.

Michaelsinodef said:

At best it was 3rd, but more likely 4th.

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US is not a slouch either when you count the whole navy and their SM6s which should rival HQ-19/late model HQ-9.

A ton of older S300 does not an outstanding air defense make, when there's no arms industry to further innovate newer platforms.

Before the war Ukraine would be 4th at the very best, and that only if you assume S300s and buks have the performance claimed by Russian arms salesmen.

You can say however that out of any country that suffered an invasion in the last 20 years, they have by leaps and bounds the best air defense.

Another video surfaced of an Ukranian soldier executing two people in Bakhmut, claimed to be civilians.


The remains of a NASAMS fell on a car in Kiev while an S300 hit a residential building in Khrivoy Rog

Anlsvrthng said:

E-3 is too far away, means the radar of it can't pick up the small cruise missiles as arrive. only close to the boarded, but even Liviv is out of the detection area.
And if Russia wish they can easly jam all E-3 from Belorus/Russian territory. Basic math, if the radar has to detect something on 300 km then a jammer on 1200 km can mask the target.

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Just using the basic line of sight formula, an E-3 at 30.000 ft will be able to detect an object at 300 ft at a distance of 433 km, assuming a perfectly flat terrain (spoiler, Kiev sits in a slight depression, so terrain would most likely mask the drones and missiles. From the shortest point in Poland, it is 470 km to Kiev. From the northern tip of Romania they could theoretically cover a few kilometers past Kiev, hardly enough to provide warning.

Unless the AWACS planes have some over-the-horizon radar that can detect drones and cruise missiles at very low level, the Ukrainians are doing all the detection themselves. Stuff launched from the Kerch sea and Crimea would be easily detected by NATO as they launch however.

Biscuits said:

US is not a slouch either when you count the whole navy and their SM6s which should rival HQ-19/late model HQ-9.

A ton of older S300 does not an outstanding air defense make, when there's no arms industry to further innovate newer platforms.

Before the war Ukraine would be 4th at the very best, and that only if you assume S300s and buks have the performance claimed by Russian arms salesmen.

You can say however that out of any country that suffered an invasion in the last 20 years, they have by leaps and bounds the best air defense.

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Ukraine improved the S-300 systems that they had.

The Russian MOD mentioned that at the very begining they had many aircraft losses because the S-300 detectiion distance on Ukrianan side was bigger than expected.

And, due to the basic radar math, 7 modern battery could replace ten old . In good case. But PAC is not good case, even the most modern version of it is inferrior compared to the 80s vintage S-300 units that Ukriane had. Again, more radar on more frequency means bigger capability than a single radar in a single frequency.

sheogorath said:

Gonna weld some JDAM kits to the soviet FAB/OFAB bombs?. Also, pretty sure JDAMs require to be droped from high altitude for them to work properly so that means exposing what's left of Ukranian aviation to CAP and S300/S400.

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Nope. Unlike previous gen of pgms (which had/have limitations related to setting up their hyros), JDAMs are perfectly suitable for toss bombing.

I.e. yes, they can be lobbed the exact same way aircraft and helicopters are doing with unguided munitions.

Gloire_bb said:

Nope. Unlike previous gen of pgms (which had/have limitations related to setting up their hyros), JDAMs are perfectly suitable for toss bombing.

I.e. yes, they can be lobbed the exact same way aircraft and helicopters are doing with unguided munitions.

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But the article mentions they are getting kits, not full on assembled JDAMS. To what are they going to attach those kits to?

Also does the Ukranian MiGs have the capability to lob through a ballistic computer or they are just going to spray-n-pray like they do with their Mi-8's and Mi-24's?