The Sino-Russian Strategic Partnership starts to get serious!

broadsword

Brigadier
Many years ago, when I went to the US for the first time, I had to go to a bank and it was very near closing time. The shutters were already half closed and so I ran into bank. The security guard nearly drew his gun!

Some years ago, a Chinese tourist was battered at the Canadian crossing by a police. After familiarizing myself with American police brutality by reading the news, it is obvious the tourist was acting as what no_name advised against. Who knew they could be so brutal unlike those in China, Japan or Singapore?
 
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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
It's not only Russia. No Anglo-Saxon-Protestant would accept being a junior partner of China. I was watching a video of Kobe Bryant on his yearly promotional tour of China. He was at his basketball camp playing one-on-one with his fans. Of course none of them could take him on. But I read one of the comments laughing at the Chinese for not being any good. Then he made a comment that linked sports to military capability believing because the Chinese fans weren't good at taking on Kobe, they would be easy to beat militarily. So what happens if China beats the US in a military battle? Is that going to be seen as some sort of international crime because the US was suppose to win? Maybe associating basketball skills with military capabilities was far-fetched but the logic isn't at all uncommon.

They can dish all what they believe why they see China as an antagonist, but it's the simple reason they have a problem with China is because of how the Chinese disrupts their vision of the world order. For Russia, is it better to have the West take over China? It's a mutual relation of common interests for both China and Russia because it the other falls, they're next. The truth is Russians have their resentments of the West because of how the Cold War ended and that's what's driving Putin. Despite what's happening in the Ukraine and how much Putin is being vilified by the West, look at how some try to push Russia as a better partner than China. What's happening in Ukraine is more worrisome to them. How many people have been killed? How many people have China killed over these territorial disputes? Russia is not going to be disrupting the Western world order without military power. China will be without using military power. That's the way it usually works where the one that uses military aggression first is the one that gets vilified. The only way to stop China is the use of military power and that's the dilemma.

If anyone wants to know who has it better being a junior partner to China or the West, I guess you can look at Africa and Western criticism of Chinese involvement there. Isn't it because China doesn't make demands like the West does?
 

pla101prc

Senior Member
Marriages of convenience are seldom stable over time, and Sino-Russo partnership wouldn’t be the exception that proves the rule. I say that because the centrifugal forces pushing the national interests of the pair apart are greater than centripetal forces holding them together. Russian population, by all accounts, is on a downward trajectory, especially in the RFE (Russia Far East). Combine that with huge and increasing disparity in economic output, which fuels military capability, one could reasonably say Moscow’s anxiety of being Beijing’s satellite would erode political/economic convenience over time. In the long-run, I see relations between the two less positive and more zero-sum.

this is indeed a very bad deal for russia. but i dont think either China or Russia are looking into the long term in this partnership. China just need Russia's willing cooperation for long enough for them to accumulate enough strength, and Russia (actually mostly putin and some of his siloviki) just want China's (financial) backing to bail them out as things go south with Europe. I say the degree of damage which Putin's relationship with the west is past the threshold of being irreversible. assuming that Putin will stay in power for another decade, then China will likely enjoy Russia's willing cooperation for that period of time, and barring drastic turn of events i doubt Putin will about-face on the gas deal since he staked so much of his political capital on it. nobody is denying Russia's grievance against China, but its grievance with the west far outweighs any grudge Putin may hold against the former. so the fact that neither party to this convenient marriage is planning for the long run is not really subject to debate, but then again in the long run we are all dead.
 

broadsword

Brigadier
With the sanctions imposed by the West on Russia, especially on its oil industry, the interdependency between the two neighbors will grow even more. We are already starting to see the result. Both parties are benefiting from the closer relationship, regardless of whether it is a "marriage of convenience" or how you call it. If China can pick up the slack at lower costs, it will be happy to see Russia supplanting its usual sources in the import of agricultural produce and minerals.
 

delft

Brigadier
this is indeed a very bad deal for russia. but i dont think either China or Russia are looking into the long term in this partnership. China just need Russia's willing cooperation for long enough for them to accumulate enough strength, and Russia (actually mostly putin and some of his siloviki) just want China's (financial) backing to bail them out as things go south with Europe. I say the degree of damage which Putin's relationship with the west is past the threshold of being irreversible. assuming that Putin will stay in power for another decade, then China will likely enjoy Russia's willing cooperation for that period of time, and barring drastic turn of events i doubt Putin will about-face on the gas deal since he staked so much of his political capital on it. nobody is denying Russia's grievance against China, but its grievance with the west far outweighs any grudge Putin may hold against the former. so the fact that neither party to this convenient marriage is planning for the long run is not really subject to debate, but then again in the long run we are all dead.
In the short and medium term the damage to EU is likely to be greater than to Russia. There is more advantage to EU in acceeding to the Eurasian economic area than in trying to go it alone.
 

delft

Brigadier
A new gas deal between Russia and China. If the EU diversifies its gas supplies Russia will not suffer:
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Russia, China to sign new 30 year gas deal via 2nd route
September 18, 2014, 5:30 am

Russia plans to sign a 30-year gas supply contract with China via the western route, Russian energy giant Gazprom’s CEO Alexei Miller told President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday. The route to supply gas to China via western Siberia may be implemented faster than the eastern route, through which Moscow has agreed to ship the fuel to its Asian neighbor in May.

“Gazprom plans to sign a contract to supply China with 30 billion cubic meters of natural gas via western route over thirty years,” Miller said.

The China-Russia West Route natural gas pipeline project connects gas deposits in Western Siberia and the northwestern part of China via Russia’s Altai region, securing the world’s top energy user a major source of cleaner fuel.

The potential of this route is “enormous”, the Gazprom CEO told the Russian President.

“It is even greater than in Eastern Siberia and, without a doubt, we can increase the volume of gas supplies very quickly via the western route, depending on the growth in demand in the Chinese market,” said Miller.

Gazprom is to sign the 30-year contract with China National Petroleum Corporation (CNPC) in November. The deal will directly link Russia’s huge gas fields to Asia’s booming market for the first time.

Miller also said Gazprom might consider more than doubling the volume of supply.

“We plan to sign a contract for a volume of 30 billion cubic metres for 30 years, though the talks have also looked at other figures for new contracts concluded for the western route. We are looking at the possibilities for supplying 60 billion cubic metres or up to 100 billion cubic metres of gas to China,” Miller told Putin in Moscow.

China and Russia signed a $400-billion gas supply deal in May this year, opening up a new market for Moscow as it risks losing European customers over the Ukraine crisis.

The Russian part of the joint venture pipeline, officially dubbed “Power of Siberia”, will be built by Gazprom with a total investment of $55 billion.

Construction of the China- Russia East Route natural gas pipeline started this month in this eastern Siberian city of Yakutsk.
 

pla101prc

Senior Member
A new gas deal between Russia and China. If the EU diversifies its gas supplies Russia will not suffer:
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i read somewhere that this is supposed to "change the landscape of international gas market" if it materializes. apparently it will drastically reduce China's appetite for LNG and make it more readily available for Japan and Korea, thus reducing its profit potential. The US shale gas companies have been banking on LNG to Asia as the mainstay of its income generation endeavour. but i think this deal will not come as easily for Russia and China as it did in the last one. Russia was shocked into signing the last one by fear of being cutoff from European market, as fighting abates in ukraine and this fear languishes, Russia will regain its foothold and put up a better fight against China on the table. China on the other hand will have to weigh seriously if it is wise to put all of its egg in one basket, even if its relation with Russia is better than it has ever been, this is still Russia we are talking about here, not exactly a model for upholding promises.
 

delft

Brigadier
i read somewhere that this is supposed to "change the landscape of international gas market" if it materializes. apparently it will drastically reduce China's appetite for LNG and make it more readily available for Japan and Korea, thus reducing its profit potential. The US shale gas companies have been banking on LNG to Asia as the mainstay of its income generation endeavour. but i think this deal will not come as easily for Russia and China as it did in the last one. Russia was shocked into signing the last one by fear of being cutoff from European market, as fighting abates in ukraine and this fear languishes, Russia will regain its foothold and put up a better fight against China on the table. China on the other hand will have to weigh seriously if it is wise to put all of its egg in one basket, even if its relation with Russia is better than it has ever been, this is still Russia we are talking about here, not exactly a model for upholding promises.
This gas will come from gas that could be sold to Europe and so allows a higher price to be reached in that market. Originally gas prices were low because the oil price was low. Now it has to compete with expensive oil and cheap gas that is made expensive by being liquified ( you burn a quarter of the gas to liquify three quarters ) and expensively transported over the Atlantic. Having an alternative market will strengthen Russia's hand.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
The National Interest has a nice article on Sino-Russian "great game" in Central Asia and it's well worth reading. China and Russia might cooperate where they can, but there are structural instabilities that strain their relations, and will likely be worse as time goes on. One paragraph that nails it:

The real problem is that wherever Russia turns it encounters China and vice-versa. In the Russian Far East, Moscow fears Beijing's encroachment, for example. Far from the capital and sparsely populated, the Russian Far East has absorbed increasing numbers of Chinese merchants, changing the demographic landscape in China's favor and prompting talk of long-term annexation, even if Beijing is yet to roll out a new map with more dashed lines to the north.

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One of the main criticisms against Washington's attempt to sanction and otherwise punish Russian President Vladimir Putin for his aggressive actions in Ukraine is that this is driving Russia and China closer together in an anti-American axis. Such concerns are unfounded, first because the two are already close strategic partners, but more importantly, because neither really trusts the other...nor should they.

This is not to say that Sino-Russian cooperation has not been significant. Last year Russia's Gazprom and the China National Petroleum Corporation signed a $400 billion contract to jointly build a gas pipeline. They further agreed to do their transactions in their own currencies, rather than the US dollar. Later that month, in a joint statement at the 4th Summit of the Conference on Interaction and Confidence Building measures in Asia (CICA) - a reinvigorated Asia-Pacific security group in which the United States and Japan are only observers - the two leaders pledged to cement their strategic partnership. Both countries have regularly vetoed or significantly watered down US-sponsored UN resolutions regarding Syria and North Korea. Moreover, China has been noticeably quiet regarding Russia's intervention in Ukraine. And while Beijing is particularly sensitive to questions of sovereignty and territorial integrity - "non-interference" being one of its most sacred principles - and despite close defense ties with Ukraine, thus far, Beijing has refrained from publicly criticizing Moscow.

Fears of a Russia-China condominium are exaggerated, however. Beneath the surface, a creeping competition will erode the foundation of the partnership. The two countries may be enjoying a honeymoon but this is a marriage of convenience. No other place will provide more fertile ground for their geopolitical competition than their shared periphery, Central Asia, a.k.a Russia's "near abroad."

China's presence and influence in Central Asia - Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan - have been increasing. The westward strategy articulated by Chinese President Xi Jinping in his "New Silk Road economic belt" highlights Central Asia's importance for Chinese economy and development. Central Asia is resource rich, and, because of its proximity to China offers a great opportunity for cheap, reliable energy imports. China has been investing billions of dollars in the energy sector which include a series of contracts with Kazakhstan worth $30 billion, 31 agreements of $15 billion value with Uzbekistan, and natural gas transactions with Turkmenistan in 2013, which reached about $16 billion. China has also provided loans and aid of $8 billion to Turkmenistan and is expected to provide at least $1 billion to Tajikistan. Last year, China upgraded relations with Kyrgyzstan to a strategic level. Perhaps more important, Beijing views Central Asian countries as important allies in the fight against Islamic extremists that foment ethnic unrest in China's west; Xinjiang is a sovereignty issue, and therefore a "core interest." Finally, as the US rebalances to East Asia, China seeks strategic space to the west.

If Ukraine is Russia's front yard, then Central Asia must be considered its back yard. Russia has longstanding historical, economic, and political ties to Central Asian governments. Moscow has sought to consolidate those relationships through regional integration initiatives such as the Commonwealth of Independent States, the Customs Union, and the Eurasian Economic Union. Moscow is especially keen to maintain control of Central Asian energy and resource exports to protect its own position in the market: Central Asia is a potential competitor to Russia's energy exports, the lifeblood of the Russian economy. Its ownership of the old Soviet pipeline network offers control over Central Asia energy exports. Russia is also able to enhance the quality of its own product by blending it with higher quality oil from Kazakhstan, while maintaining control over price and supply.

Thus far Russian and Chinese interests in the region have converged. Nontraditional security concerns such as Islamic extremism have brought the two countries together, leading to greater cooperation in the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) - but naming an organization encompassing the Central Asian states after a Chinese city must add salt to the wound. Deeper Chinese engagement in Central Asia makes competition inevitable. For Russia, the stakes are high.

As energy-rich Central Asian countries explore new supply routes, such as the China-Kazakhstan oil pipeline, Russia fears the loss of its leverage and the emergence of new competition. Lower profits from energy exports coupled with economic challenges and plunging currency would accelerate Russia's downward economic spiral.

Economically, Russia is still important for Central Asian countries and remittances from Central Asian workers in Russia sustain their economies. But increasing Chinese economic engagement offers Central Asian countries an opportunity to diversify their economic relations. China is now the largest trading partner of Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, and Kyrgyzstan. Its trade with the region reached $46 billion in 2012, almost double that of Russia. Facing an economically stronger China, Russia will have to use more resources to keep pace and keep Central Asia in its orbit. With economic stagnation and the likelihood of protracted uncertainty in its front yard, this may prove challenging for Moscow.

Multilateral mechanisms may not be able to mediate the competition. Beijing has been pushing for further regional economic integration through the SCO, but Russia has resisted any multilateral framework that is not under its leadership. China is also suspicious of organizations that it does not control. It isn't clear that the SCO can reconcile and contain the pressures created by the two countries' competing visions of regional economic integration.

Nor will shared interests prevent competition. Many see arms trade as an example of a strong China-Russia axis. But while Russia sells thousands of weapons to China, it sells even more to India, China's strategic competitor. Russia refuses to sell China its most advanced weapons to protect its intellectual property and for fear that China's military could become too strong. Consequently, the arms trade has become a source of tension between the two countries and volume has decreased significantly in recent years. Perhaps Moscow remembers Lenin's prediction that "the Capitalists will sell us the rope with which to hang them."

Finally, the US withdrawal from Afghanistan could produce a vacuum in South Asia that could threaten stability in neighboring states. Many of the fiercest elements of the Taliban are Central Asian fighters, who gained experience and established networks in Afghanistan.

Central Asian governments have already expressed concern about the return of these fighters to their home countries to continue jihad. Seeking to stop the contagion, China and Russia will fill the vacuum both in South Asia - after all the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in the 1970s - and Central Asia. Expect greater competition over who will guarantee regional security, and therefore exert more influence in regional capitals.

The real problem is that wherever Russia turns it encounters China and vice-versa. In the Russian Far East, Moscow fears Beijing's encroachment, for example. Far from the capital and sparsely populated, the Russian Far East has absorbed increasing numbers of Chinese merchants, changing the demographic landscape in China's favor and prompting talk of long-term annexation, even if Beijing is yet to roll out a new map with more dashed lines to the north.

Central Asia is no less important than Ukraine. And there are Western limits to Putin's desire to rebuild Russian influence (read: NATO). The near abroad is likely to be next. Moscow is likely to become aggressive toward China if it starts losing its diplomatic grip on this region. Russian President Vladimir Putin has put growing emphasis on "defending Russian compatriots"; there is no reason to think Central Asia will be exempt from this "humanitarian" tendency in Russia's foreign policy. China is unlikely to accept a redefinition of Russian interests that comes at its expense.

In the end, geopolitical competition will prevail. China is beginning to reassert itself as a continental power, while Russia struggles to maintain its economic and political supremacy in Central Asia. Facing greater competition from the US in East Asia, Beijing is shifting attention westward to take advantage of what it perceives as a vacuum in Central Asia. Over the long term, it is highly unlikely that China will accept a geopolitical straightjacket. The 21st Century version of the Great Game is on.
 
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