The Q-5, J-7, J-8 and older PLAAF aircraft

P

pendragon

Junior Member
And if you think the J-7 is an oldie, I just saw an AN-2 biplane in a series of female fighter-pilots parachute training over water on: english.people.com.cn . It proves that some old designs still have their use; reliable, rugged and economic(?).
I just love the sight of this old bird!
 
D

delft

Brigadier
pendragon said:
And if you think the J-7 is an oldie, I just saw an AN-2 biplane in a series of female fighter-pilots parachute training over water on: english.people.com.cn . It proves that some old designs still have their use; reliable, rugged and economic(?).
I just love the sight of this old bird!
Click to expand...
OT
An-2 is a popular aircraft for parachutists, the largest single engine aircraft for that purpose. It is so used in The Netherlands.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
Miragedriver

Miragedriver

Brigadier
Initially this model was prepared as a concept aircraft to see if there would be any prospective buyer. It appears that now there is a flying version of the aircraft with the new wing design and LEX.

whqBSZA.jpg

Model (Posted earlier on this thread)
ZAfEd7Y.jpg

Flying prototype? (Missing wing tip AAM)

Nations that already have the MiG-21, or J-7 variant, now have a less expensive alternative to the JF-17. Granted it is not a multi-roll aircraft, but look at the Mirage III variant (Kfir) and all the upgrades that the Israelis have incorporated into the aircraft, specifically the AESA radar (if true) could at least engage some 4th generation aircraft on an even footing.

With that said the Kfir loses air speed rapidly in turning air to air combat. The FTC-2000G and its redesigned wing rectify some of that air speed loss that is inherent in the delta wing. A small aircraft such as this is easier to maintain than a larger fourth generation aircraft and probably (even with the new avionics) less expensive to buy.

Granted there are also a lot of draw backs: such as limited range, limited payload, reduced g limits and the fact that it is still a version of the MiG-21 it does not instil fear into your opponent.

If I had to choose between a Kfir, block 60 or a FTC-2000G (airframe) with comparable electronics, I would choose the second. Naturally I would prefer a J-20, F-35 equivalent, but we are talking about J-7’s and older types on this thread.
Any thoughts?
 
Deino

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Miragedriver said:
Initially this model was prepared as a concept aircraft to see if there would be any prospective buyer. It appears that now there is a flying version of the aircraft with the new wing design and LEX.
...
Flying prototype? (Missing wing tip AAM)
Click to expand...

You are correct, that there were some mayor changes on the wing geometry between the prototype, first operation batch (delivered to the FTTC and the Naval Training Unit) and this latest one. However it is not a "Flying prototype" like You assume but the operational JL-9G carrier trainer.

Anyway if this type will have a future remains to be seen (at least IMO) since it is simply too dated most of all airframe and engine wise and could therefore only receive some minor sales to poor countries probably in Africa.

Deino
 
Miragedriver

Miragedriver

Brigadier
Deino said:
You are correct, that there were some mayor changes on the wing geometry between the prototype, first operation batch (delivered to the FTTC and the Naval Training Unit) and this latest one. However it is not a "Flying prototype" like You assume but the operational JL-9G carrier trainer.

Anyway if this type will have a future remains to be seen (at least IMO) since it is simply too dated most of all airframe and engine wise and could therefore only receive some minor sales to poor countries probably in Africa.

Deino
Click to expand...

Deino. Yes it is a dated airframe and performance against a 5th generation aircraft is suicidal. However like at the Israelis are selling the Kfir. It is a dated airframe, granted it does have longer legs and heavier payload than the J-7.

Like you mentioned. Sales to poor countries
 
P

POKL

New Member
Unsophisticated aircraft do have a future I dare to say. IMHO there are a number of reasons for this. To start with – what do you need a fighter aircraft for? If it is fighting World War III – OK, I got carried away a little, let’s say a high intensity conflict against a high tech adversary – than sophisticated aircraft are obviously what u need while older / less sophisticated ones will have the combat value of target drones.

But if needs are limited to confronting airspace violators, smugglers etc. and police ur airspace or the potential adversary has limited capabilities than a fighter is still needed for even in order to intercept and force to land some airspace violators u still need to catch them (performance a fighter can only give is required) and air to air weapons are still needed so as to persuade them to land or if all else fails shoot them down (in case of ters who use an aircraft this may be the only option). For these types of scenarios a let us say Rafale would be a waste of money (u may not have that many $ in the first place) & an overkill but less sophisticated, thus less expensive to purchase & operate AC would be sufficient, such as for example some overhauled F 7.

Now let me turn to my favourite subject. Since we are here in the J 7 thread. On page 13 of this thread an air to air kill scored by a Sri Lankan F 7 is mentioned. I was wondering if there are any other known air to air kills scored by J 7 / F 7 by any other operator. Info on such as well as the combat use of the J 7 / F 7 would be much appreciated.
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
POKL said:
Unsophisticated aircraft do have a future I dare to say. IMHO there are a number of reasons for this. To start with – what do you need a fighter aircraft for? If it is fighting World War III – OK, I got carried away a little, let’s say a high intensity conflict against a high tech adversary – than sophisticated aircraft are obviously what u need while older / less sophisticated ones will have the combat value of target drones.

But if needs are limited to confronting airspace violators, smugglers etc. and police ur airspace or the potential adversary has limited capabilities than a fighter is still needed for even in order to intercept and force to land some airspace violators u still need to catch them (performance a fighter can only give is required) and air to air weapons are still needed so as to persuade them to land or if all else fails shoot them down (in case of ters who use an aircraft this may be the only option). For these types of scenarios a let us say Rafale would be a waste of money (u may not have that many $ in the first place) & an overkill but less sophisticated, thus less expensive to purchase & operate AC would be sufficient, such as for example some overhauled F 7.

Now let me turn to my favourite subject. Since we are here in the J 7 thread. On page 13 of this thread an air to air kill scored by a Sri Lankan F 7 is mentioned. I was wondering if there are any other known air to air kills scored by J 7 / F 7 by any other operator. Info on such as well as the combat use of the J 7 / F 7 would be much appreciated.
Click to expand...

There are a few air to air kills against U.S. surveillance drones and balloons by Chinese J-7s (using cannons or unguided air-to-air rockets). I am not aware of any other air-to-air kills by J-7s.
 
P

POKL

New Member
siegecrossbow said:
There are a few air to air kills against U.S. surveillance drones and balloons by Chinese J-7s (using cannons or unguided air-to-air rockets). I am not aware of any other air-to-air kills by J-7s.
Click to expand...

There are always new things to learn as I thought that all PLAAF / PLANAF „kills” were scored by the J 6 and elder aircraft (the collision between the J 8 and the US surveillance aircraft was IMHO really not a „kill” for either side).

Regarding the J 7 / F 7 – as stated I think that such aircraft can be a cost effective solution for providing air policing and dealing with low tech adversaries.

As for other use for such aircraft – does China convert phased out aircraft into target drones like the US does? Were any J 6 and / or J 7 (other phased out AC for the matter of it) converted this way?
 
thunderchief

thunderchief

Senior Member
POKL said:
As for other use for such aircraft – does China convert phased out aircraft into target drones like the US does? Were any J 6 and / or J 7 (other phased out AC for the matter of it) converted this way?
Click to expand...

There were reports that China converted large number of J-6 to drones/cruise missiles .

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


As for J-7, probably not for few more years, they still serve as point defense interceptors and air police .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top