The Q-5, J-7, J-8 and older PLAAF aircraft

vesicles said:

True, however I think I heard from someone on this forum a few years back that the PLAAF seems to specifically convert J-7 units to J-10 units because of the specialized air to air combat training they got. So it's not like they are only picking the good pilots out of any units (be it J-7 or J-8). and put them together for the new J-10 units. They seems to prefer J-7 pilots for the conversion and convert the entire J-7 units to J-10 while keeping the unit intact. Of course they will pick the better pilots out of all the J-7 pilots available. However, I think they are keeping the J-7 units intact and active not as a retirement policy but for the intention to convert them to J-10 units.

There are so many cheaper ways to keep those old pilots employed. Can you imagine spending all that money to maintain those J-7's and keeping them active just to keep those pilots and technicians employed? The PLAAF is huge. They can easily find other jobs for these guys without having to waste all that money on the J-7. Don't forget that the PLA downsized itself multiple times within the last couple decades and cut hundreds of thousands of personnel. They did this by putting the extra personnel into PAP and other jobs. I am sure they can find some other jobs for a few hundred pilots and technicians if they intend to cut them.

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I remember someone writing the same thing, but I cannot remember whom. Another assumption could be that the J-7 pilots a very good stick and rudder men and with some additional training in advanced radar tactics and usage convert easily to the J-10.

North Korean

View attachment 9540

sorry, I'm learning to use the forum

CAC F-7M Airguard single-seat fighter and close support aircraft; upper plan view shows modified outer wings of J-7E and F-7MG; lower scrap views of J-7FS nose in profile and plan


Even though the design is over half a century old, it is still a beautiful aircraft

Anyone care to speculate who the FTC-2000G unspecied customer is?

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The latest image (November 2013) indicated that JL-9G is entering the service with PLAN (S/N 83x0x) without the arresting hook installed. An export version dubbed FTC-2000G low-cost LIFT aircraft was unveiled at the 2012 Zhuhai Airshow. This version features an additional pair of side pylons underneath the fuselage for bombs as well as wingtip pylons for AAMs. It was reported that the development of FTC-2000G officially started in December 2013 based on the request from an unspecified customer.

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Dolcevita said:

Anyone care to speculate who the FTC-2000G unspecied customer is?

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If I had to take a wild guess I could think of three nations: Pakistan, Bangladesh, or Iran. A forth guess would be an African nations Air Force that is a large MiG-21/J-7 operator like Nigeria or Tanzania.

What is interesting is that J-7/Mig-21 is so loved (due to is simple maintenance and low operating costs) that many nations that have utilized the J-7/Mig-21 are having a difficult time letting go. There is a logistics chain and maintenance facilities (along with trained maintenance personnel) that will require a transition to a new aircraft type.

Even though the FTC-2000 has been improved with a large engine, more hard points and a lager radar; it is still will be hard pressed to hold its own against fourth and fifth generation aircraft. Especially in the BVR arena. It is a good dog-fighter, but its Achilles heel is its limited range and fuel capacity.

However this aircraft is not without merit. The in-flight refuelling probe can provide in-flight refuelling training to Air Force pilots, its ease of maintenance and low operating cost can ensure pilots a larger number if flight hours. It can be used as a trainer and as an aggressor aircraft to keep other elite squadrons up-to-date in dog-fight air to air combat.

I remember reading somewhere that there is a larger use of composite materials in the aircraft. Can anyone verify if that is indeed true? Thank you

Whilst surfing the internet I can across this little gem. It is a threat guide published by the 185th Allied Force. The publication is available at:


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AIRCRAFT THREATS
MiG-21F/MF/PF/PFM Fishbed (Chengdu J-7)
The MiG-21 is one of the most produced aircraft in the history of aviation. The earliest production model is the MiG-21F Fishbed C that was only armed with the IR R-13M (AA-2 Atoll).

The MiG-21 MF/PF/PFM Fishbed J/D/F were equipped with an early engine that gives it a lot less acceleration compared to the late model Mig-21bis and MiG-21-93. The aircraft normally utilises ambush and slash-and-run tactics. The delta wing design results in very high drag in a turning fight and will rapidly bleed the energy from the aircraft, even in full afterburner. Against the F-16 it can easily be out-turned in a two circle fight (although it can out-turn an F-16 in Cat III mode) and the lower thrust to weight ratio puts it at a distinct disadvantage compared to the F-16 in a dogfight.

The RWR will only detect the F-16 at a range of approx 20 nm, making it very susceptible to long-range, high altitude BVR shots. The performance of the radar does not allow it to detect targets in look-down situations and look-up range is poor at 12-14 nm. The aircraft is not equipped with any jammers or CMDS. You are likely to find the Mig-21MF/PF/PFM equipped with R-13M/R (AA-2C and AA-2D) missiles. The lack of BVR weapons and all-aspect WVR missiles means this airplane is not much of a threat until it gets to the rear quarter.

The Chengdu J-7 is a Chinese built variant of the MiG-21PF/PFM Fishbed-F and is armed with the PL-2 or PL-7 missiles.

MiG-21bis
The Mig-21bis is an improved model featuring ground attack secondary capability, additional fuel capacity and an engine that provides over a third more thrust than the Fishbed F. This makes it more effective in the turning fight, although it can still be out turned by an F-16 in Cat I at corner airspeed. It may also be equipped with the more capable all aspect R-60 (AA-8) missile that makes the MiG-21bis a threat from the front quarter.

MiG-21-93 Fishbed
The MiG-21-93 is a derivative of the MiG-21bis. The upgrade is based on the Kopyo airborne radar and new weapons. It provides:

• Longer range air target detection and lock-on in look-up and look-down, carriage of the R-73 and R-77.
• Air target detection and engagement range in action in the front hemisphere;
• Track-while-scan mode with the capability of tracking up to 10 targets and engaging two of them;
• Capability to battle successfully with fourth-generation fighters

The advanced radar combined with the R-77 (AA-12 Adder) offer the MiG-21-93 a BVR and Home-on-Jam (HOJ) capability and the first shot over the F-16/AIM-120 combination. In the WVR arena the high off-boresight, manoeuvrability and range of the R-73 Mod 1 and 2 (AA-11 Archer) give the MiG-21-93 an advantage over the AIM-9M equipped Falcon and is equal to the AIM-9X.

The MiG-21-93 is a serious threat that should be taken as seriously as the most modern of fighters.
Statistics

Mig-21 Fishbed/ Chengdu J-7 III
Armament: AA-2C (MiG-21F), AA-2C/D (MiG-21MF/PF/PFM),
AA-8 (MiG-21bis, MiG-21-93), R-73 Mod 1 &2 (93),
R-77 (MiG-21-93 )

Engine power: Low T/W ratio (Medium for Bis and 93)
A-A Threat Type: WVR Rear Aspect (MiG-21 PF/PFM)
Fwd Aspect (MiG-21bis)
BVR & WVR All-aspect (MiG-21-93)

Speed (top): Mach 1.8
Dogfight ability: Vertical: Very Low (PF/PFM), Low (Bis, 93)

Horizontal: Low-Med
A-A

Tactics: Ambush / Slash + Run

RWR: < 20 nm (PF/PFM, Bis) <25nm (93)
Radar Range
Look Up: (12 - 14 nm) (20nm+ for MiG-21-93)
Look Down: None (15nm+ for MiG-21-93)
Burnthrough Look Up: 6nm (10nm+ for MiG-21-93)
Burnthrough Look Up: 6nm (10nm+ for MiG-21-93)
Burnthrough Look down: 1nm (5nm+ for MiG-21-93)
CMDS / ECM: None

Primary Missions: Point defence CAP / Basic A-G

Characteristics: High drag in turning fight. RWR leaves it vulnerable to hi-alt, long-range BVR shots (except for MiG-21-93). Early variants are WVR only. Bis and 93 offer BVR capability. 93 carries R-73 and R-77.

Miragedriver said:

CAC F-7M Airguard single-seat fighter and close support aircraft; upper plan view shows modified outer wings of J-7E and F-7MG; lower scrap views of J-7FS nose in profile and plan

Even though the design is over half a century old, it is still a beautiful aircraft

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I agree.. the MiG-21 is like the F-5, the B-52, C130 or even the AK-47 or the Colt 1911 in the gun world. They are our father or even grandfather's design but will go on for many more decades to come because basic engineering and scientific principles were applied to them well and has allowed these fine inventions to withstand the test of time over and over again.