asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
3rd Zubr unit under construction at HP
The PLAN LCAC Type 726 Yuyi Class
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
Does Diaoyu have a nice beach for Zubr to land on?
I think Zubr make sense for a quick reaction force to attempt to take back some distant islands with nice beaches that has been half heartedly taken by an enemy force without strong air and sea support.
This seem to apply to contested atolls in south China sea.
I suspect it doesn't apply to contested rocks north of Taiwan.
And you think that China is going to send the Zubr or any other landing platform to any place without air and sea support? Of course that is not the case. And in many instances if the Zubr cannot land... then so can't many other platform, so what is the use of having all these Landing ship tanks and the such?
You don't need a nice beach for the Zubr to land, or for any LST to land, and that is the main reasons for the military platforms. Plus any invasion attempt to be conducted by China would of course be a mixture of different armies and you can be sure that there will be strong air support, sea support and artillery support, which actually is pretty common. You don't just sent your marines unsupported on some hovercrafts (no matter how big) to a fiercely contested island without anything else, unless you hate that general that much that you just want him to get himself and his men killed.
No, the point of Russian enclosed assault hover crafts like Zubr is they are clearly intended to embark their landing force from a land base, independently cross much wider and rougher seas than could be easily handled by normal open topped air cushioned lighter type LCACs, and then assault the beach in more or less a single wave. As such the biggest advantage of Zubr is its ability to enable the Chinese to react very rapidly from a land base in the face of low or moderate surface and air threat over a large area of sea, to attack a landing area that could be overwhelmed in a single wave assault by a moderate sized mechanized landing force. This calls to mind multiple targets in south China sea.
If the situation calls for China to assemble and deploy large surface and air force first to assert sea and air control over the serious competent adversary in contested area, as would undoubted be the case in a serious conflict over Senkakus with Japan, then the Chinese have to take some time to prepsre, and they would also have the time to assemble and coordinate a significant true amphibious forces involving assets like LPD and LPH into place. If the landing can be mounted from these dedicated amphibious assets, then they undoubted prefer their own open topped, short rangedLCACs because these can deploy flexibly from LPD and LPHs and can continue to support the landing after the initial wave ferrying troops, vehicles, equipments and supplies from ships to shore.
In such as scenario Zubr would be at a discount because its ability to independently cross open sea would be unneeded while its configuration would prevent it from taking useful part in the moving supplies and troops from the big amphibious assets like LPH and LPDs.
Basically, Zubr is most useful in situations where a few Zubrs are enough to cross the seas and take the islands. Zubrs become exponentially less useful when a heavy concentration of conventional fleet and amphibious assets are required to control the area under contest.
If the situation calls for China to assemble and deploy large surface and air force first to assert sea and air control over the serious competent adversary in contested area, as would undoubted be the case in a serious conflict over Senkakus with Japan, then the Chinese have to take some time to prepsre, and they would also have the time to assemble and coordinate a significant true amphibious forces involving assets like LPD and LPH into place. If the landing can be mounted from these dedicated amphibious assets, then they undoubted prefer their own open topped, short rangedLCACs because these can deploy flexibly from LPD and LPHs and can continue to support the landing after the initial wave ferrying troops, vehicles, equipments and supplies from ships to shore.
In such as scenario Zubr would be at a discount because its ability to independently cross open sea would be unneeded while its configuration would prevent it from taking useful part in the moving supplies and troops from the big amphibious assets like LPH and LPDs.
Basically, Zubr is most useful in situations where a few Zubrs are enough to cross the seas and take the islands. Zubrs become exponentially less useful when a heavy concentration of conventional fleet and amphibious assets are required to control the area under contest.
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That is what the Russian intended the Zubr to be for. But was it also what the Chinese intend the Zubr to be for?
Also, the strategy and tactics and what the Zubr are build for is all on paper. Humans are alive and all the other are dead. And the Chinese are very very innovative people and are very good at improvising whatever they have on hands. I would not be surprise that if needs be and they need speed... they might even be using merchant ships or fishing boats to ferry her troops over to wherever is needed. And of course all these assets would be protected by aircrafts and maybe at least 056 or 022 ships and boats.
And if say... for Diaoyutao scenario, the Chinese knew that the Japanese had a strong presence there and they required rapid insertion of their marines onto the island, they will confirm send a strong fleet, with air support, sea support and even submarines, while the Zubr can be used to quickly ship her troops about, while her air force provide air cover for these marines.
Of course if the enemy is someone like the Philippines who hardly had any air defence and insignificant sea support, then the Chinese could send in their Zubr quickly without or with minimum support.
My point is... no one military equipment are only useful in one way or can only be used one way, there are heaps of applications that the military equipment can be used... alone or in a group.
In another example is... a RPG is designed to cause lots of damage to unprotected infantry forces. But some one used it to down helicopter too.
(Page 60)
So if everyone is following strictly to "what the weapon or equipment is intented to be used for" then we will not be reading people using RPG to down helicopter, are we?
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TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
use of unguided rocket based projectiles as close air defenses actually has a historical precedent. Near the end of the second world war the Germans developed the Fliegerfaust a 9 shot 20mm shoulder fired unguided rocket launcher to engage low flying aircraft.
Fliegerfaust is the grandfather of all manpad
Fliegerfaust is the grandfather of all manpad
Yes, that is so true. But what I meant is, a weapon can be used in different ways and means. Not just what it was intended for. The RPG was not intended for fighting against the helicopter when it was being designed. However, it can still be used. The M16 and AK47 was intended to engage infantry, but they can still be used against helicopter and low flying aircraft too.
So the main idea here is, when I answer to Chuck, was that when the Russian designed the Zubr, even if they intend it to not be use with other defences or for certain roles, it doesn't mean that the Zubr are only to be used for that role only. And there really is no one stopping the Chinese from sending air support, sea support and whatever support needed for a successful strike against whatever target.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
I think you need to step back and think about what the overall strategic stratedgy is here
Taiwan is the responsibility of the PLA, after the PLAAF and 2nd Artillary corps have made thier sweep the job for the PLA is land on Taiwan using thier fleet of roll and on roll of vessels, to land men, mechanised material and other supply's
These four Zubr class just like the Type 071 LPD will be for the two 6,000 man marine brigades, the 1st marine brigade and the 164th marine brigade
Both these units are becoming ever more increasing active and as they get better and better equipment, no doubt any frontline marine brigade has its toughest training and are usually reguarded as the elite formation for amphibious assault
The marines are tasked for fast and powerful blow to enemy defences, Zubr fits well in this because each Zubr can lift probably a battalion of marines, 4 Zubr could probably lift a entire Regiment, thats huge power
Anyone who thinks about taking a Chinese island or disputed region can expect a rapid response by PLAAF, but now they can also expect a pretty big marine force traveling at 50-60 knots coming in from the mainland, this gives the Chinese marines a capability they never had before
The 2nd unit probably now under going sea trials in Ukraine and the 3rd is getting along nicely, this is even before China has even tested the machine, so it means it has good use in PLAN, as a matter of fact I would not be surprised if we end up seeing a few "Flotillas" of these so 8-12 units
hi all long time lurker is the chinese LCAC a direct copy of the US version ??..
thomas
thomas
