The Main-Armament Level Of Warships Entering Service

Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
Yesterday at 10:32 PM
Jura said:
I'm going to comment on Belharra soon, LOL will need this particular picture which I had seen in the past but couldn't find later and now noticed again:
ixblue-to-provide-navigation-systems-for-new-french-fti-frigates-1024x559.jpg
Click to expand...
from what I figured, the Belharras should get 8 Exocets, A-50 VLS with 16 cells, and should be
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16 more A-50 VLS cells

with 8 AShM tubes and total of 32 VLS cells, they would be "B+" in the picture:
f2552c68d1c781a3b1e6fa1ce569de65.jpg

and in the chart further below (if that happened, they would be properly armed according to me, considering their displacement OK that's what Type 054A has, displacing almost the same)

with 8 AShM tubes and total of 16 VLS cells (instead of 32 as above) houp-là! "B-":
32783a24f0e2d6d454d9e706d767420b.jpg


check Oct 12, 2017 before looking at the chart in case you cared and didn't know it yet:
29c23f3e0f6ee24ae71255755d61dcd4.jpg
 
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Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
Oct 22, 2017
Jura said:
am wondering what AAMs and AShMs exactly
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are getting (somewhere I've heard of MICAs and NSMs but googling now showed other missiles as well)
f7e5e3b8287980eac14042cdd18be3a1.jpg

space for 12-cells VLS and 8 AShM tubes is there:
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but I would count them, with not bad ratio of 20/2.4 = 8.3, only if I saw them hahaha
Click to expand...
unspecified numbers of MICAs and Exocets inside
Indonesian Navy commissions second SIGMA frigate KRI I Gusti Ngurah Rai
Posted on January 12, 2018
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Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
interestingly, Harpoon Block II+ER won in Finland (apparently against the Scandinavians: NSM and Robotsystem-15) ... the story concerns perspective

Squadron 2020
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corvettes which,

if indeed displaced around 1500 t (
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) and got 8 of those Harpoons and 8-cells VLS (this would seem to be the case based on the number of ESSMs they intend to buy:
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),

would be well armed by my standards
52aa34b8e4bb4f5ddd6856b94bc0184a.jpg
 
T

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
On the ratio of VLS to tonnage, one also needs to consider that VLS are not made equal. The larger and deeper the VLS is, the bigger and more potent the missiles it can carry, in terms of range, punch, and sophistication in its guidance systems. There are VLS out there that can only fit point defense SAMs, and others that can fit long range supersonic cruise missiles.

For example the odd case of the Shivalik class, which fully loaded weighs around 6,800 tons. It has a 32 cell VLS for Barak missiles, but these are Barak 1 missiles, which is a short ranged SAM with radar CLOS (command guided from the ship). It has 24 medium ranged Shtil-1 missiles, but these are oddly, used with an arm launcher, which limits its firing rate to 5 to 6 seconds each round. And then it has 8 large cell VLS, each can house a Brahmos or an Onix missile, each nearly 3,000 kg.

Ships with the Mk. 41 VLS launcher can have the VLS in three versions: Self Defense, up to 5.3m; Tactical, up to 6.8m, and Strike, up to 7.7m. You can't use Tomahawks, SM-3 or SM-6 on the 5.3m one.

The classification for Sylver VLS is simple. A35 means its 3.5m in length; A43 means its 4.3m; A50 is 5.0m; and A70 means 7m. A35 is only good for point defense SAMs like Mica; A43 is the minimum to fit the Aster 15; A50 is need for Aster 30 and Scalp cruise missile can only be used on the A70. The Belharra uses sixteen A50s.

So what does it say about a ship that's configured like:

a.) A frigate with 16 A50 cells.
b.) A frigate with 16 A43 and 16 A70 cells.
c.) A frigate with 16 A43 and 16 A50 cells.
d.) A destroyer with 48 A50 cells.
e.) A frigate with 48 VLS for CAMMs (short ranged SAM) and 24 strike length Mk. 41 cells.

CAMMs is like 25km, Aster 15 is like 30km and Aster 30 is said to reach up to 120km.
 
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Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
the premises of what I discuss in this thread are (of course they've been posted long ago, but after your post I felt it's time to repeat):

the square represents 1.0 k-displacing Project 21631 (so called Buyan-M with eight so called Kalibrs: if you want to nitpick or don't know what I talk about, please skip reading this); 8 tubes in total

the circle symbol represents 2.5 k-displacing Project 20385 (8 Kalibrs, 16 cells of so called Redut: again, don't nitpick!); 24 tubes in total

the upward-pointing triangle symbol represents 3.6 k-displacing Incheon-II (8 Korean AShMs, 16 cells Korean VLS); 24 tubes in total

the downward-pointing triangle symbol represents 4.0 k-displacing Project 11356 (8 Kalibrs, 16 cells of so called Shtil: again, don't nitpick!); 32 tubes in total

the diamond symbol represents 4.1 k-displacing Type 054A (32 cells VLS; 8xC-803); 40 tubes in total

the left-pointing triangle symbol represents 5.4 k-displacing Project 22350 (16 Kalibrs, 32 cells of Redut: don't start nitpicking here); 48 tubes in total

the right-pointing triangle symbol represents 5.5 k-displacing KDX-II (32 cells of Mk 41 VLS, 32 cells of Korean VLS, 8 Korean AShMs); 72 tubes in total

the hexagon symbol represents 7.5 k-displacing Type 052D (64 cells VLS); 64 tubes in total

the star symbols represents 11.0 k-displacing KDX-III (80 cells of Mk 41 VLS, 32 cells of Korean VLS, 16 Korean AShMs); 144 tubes in total

and finally, the pentagon (sorry! LOL) symbol represents 12 k-displacing Type 055 with 112 cells VLS, 112 tubes in total


as you can see below, these ships MORE OR LESS follow the trend of ten tubes per one thousand metric tons of full displacement; they're WARSHIPS
Click to expand...
3ddb44af69bf0559eba6ccfc07394e06.jpg

and I'm not interested in any spin which would try to sell to me an idea of a strong armament actually not needed for
Warships Entering Service
with Western spin doctors "stressing" peace missions, disaster relief, blah blah blah, and Western spin doctors trying to sell
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in the situation when they don't have MONEY to properly arm
Warships Entering Service

I think I've spent enough time on reading about the first-half-of-the-20th-century naval encounters to know only more/bigger guns worked against big guns (please don't list some lucky strikes here now), so I believe in the 21th century only more missiles would work against missiles

neither I'm interested in imaginary variants of what would've been a better solution if this or that had been mounted instead of that or this;
I'm interested in, you know, reality

as to your post: of course it's a generalization to count just the tubes, but I think it's a good indication of how much some navy bothered with arming its warship LOL

one specific point now:
Tam said:
On the ratio of VLS to tonnage, one also needs to consider that VLS are not made equal. The larger and deeper the VLS is, the bigger and more potent the missiles it can carry, in terms of range, punch, and sophistication in its guidance systems. There are VLS out there that can only fit point defense SAMs, and others that can fit long range supersonic cruise missiles.

For example the odd case of the Shivalik class, which fully loaded weighs around 6,800 tons. It has a 32 cell VLS for Barak missiles, but these are Barak 1 missiles, which is a short ranged SAM with radar CLOS (command guided from the ship). It has 24 medium ranged Shtil-1 missiles, but these are oddly, used with an arm launcher, which limits its firing rate to 5 to 6 seconds each round. And then it has 8 large cell VLS, each can house a Brahmos or an Onix missile, each nearly 3,000 kg.

Ships with the Mk. 41 VLS launcher can have the VLS in three versions: Self Defense, up to 5.3m; Tactical, up to 6.8m, and Strike, up to 7.7m. You can't use Tomahawks, SM-3 or SM-6 on the 5.3m one.

The classification for Sylver VLS is simple. A35 means its 3.5m in length; A43 means its 4.3m; A50 is 5.0m; and A70 means 7m. A35 is only good for point defense SAMs like Mica; A43 is the minimum to fit the Aster 15; A50 is need for Aster 30 and Scalp cruise missile can only be used on the A70. The Belharra uses sixteen A50s.

So what does it say about a ship that's configured like:

a.) A frigate with 16 A50 cells.
b.) A frigate with 16 A43 and 16 A70 cells.
c.) A frigate with 16 A43 and 16 A50 cells.
d.) A destroyer with 48 A50 cells.
e.) A frigate with 48 VLS for CAMMs (short ranged SAM) and 24 strike length Mk. 41 cells.

CAMMs is like 25km, Aster 15 is like 30km and Aster 30 is said to reach up to 120km.
Click to expand...
I'm particularly unsure about the Type 26 I mean it could a lemon if it didn't get Mk 41
Jul 3, 2017
Jura said:
now I read
Type 26: where does the money go?
July 3, 2017
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time for Apr 1, 2016
... again
Click to expand...
 
T

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
You're computing tubes. Things start to look different and the graph radically changes when you start to compute by missile weight.

Using internet sources, HQ-16 is said to be 615 kg, and the HQ-9 is about 1300 kg. With 32 missiles, a Type 054 carries about 19,680 kg of SAM weight. YJ-83 is said to be around 715 kg of weight, and 8 of them adds 5,720kg. This adds up to a total of 25,400 kg of missile weight. The Type 054A has a full load of just over 4000 tons.

The Type 052D has a full load of 7,500 tons. It carries 64 HQ-9s or have some missiles substitute that. 64 HQ-9s have a total of 83,200 kg of weight. That's actually 3 x over that of the 054A. The HQ-9 does not fully occupy the space of the U-VLS, as the HQ-9 ends with a 6.8m in length, and the U-VLS has 7m and 9m variants. The 9m cells are designed to hold missiles that are bigger than the HQ-9. I could not get weight figures of the YJ-18, but Russian Klub missiles, which the YJ-18 is similar or copied from, ranges from 1300kg to 2300kg depending on Klub family member. The YJ-12 is a humongous 2500 kg. So its possible that the 052D can carry more than 83,000kg of missile weight. So for a ship that has less than double the weight of the other, it can carry more than three times the "war weight".
 
Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
Tam said:
You're computing tubes. Things start to look different and the graph radically changes when you start to compute by missile weight.

Using internet sources, HQ-16 is said to be 615 kg, and the HQ-9 is about 1300 kg. With 32 missiles, a Type 054 carries about 19,680 kg of SAM weight. YJ-83 is said to be around 715 kg of weight, and 8 of them adds 5,720kg. This adds up to a total of 25,400 kg of missile weight. The Type 054A has a full load of just over 4000 tons.

The Type 052D has a full load of 7,500 tons. It carries 64 HQ-9s or have some missiles substitute that. 64 HQ-9s have a total of 83,200 kg of weight. That's actually 3 x over that of the 054A. The HQ-9 does not fully occupy the space of the U-VLS, as the HQ-9 ends with a 6.8m in length, and the U-VLS has 7m and 9m variants. The 9m cells are designed to hold missiles that are bigger than the HQ-9. I could not get weight figures of the YJ-18, but Russian Klub missiles, which the YJ-18 is similar or copied from, ranges from 1300kg to 2300kg depending on Klub family member. The YJ-12 is a humongous 2500 kg. So its possible that the 052D can carry more than 83,000kg of missile weight. So for a ship that has less than double the weight of the other, it can carry more than three times the "war weight".
Click to expand...
I'm about to plot this:
bd1d0b21f0dee609d34d214a19af3466.jpg


KAShM =
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KTLAM =
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oops now I see I mistyped (it's 1.5 t, not 1.4), will fix this, LOL also the acronym, to just KLAM

the trend is there ... but need some coffee now LOL
 
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