Hinduism is the most powerful & poisonous religion in the world. With Hinduism, Pope Modi successfully drugged down every Indian.
The Kashmir conflict 2025.
- Thread starter ohan_qwe
- Start date
Hinduism is the most powerful & poisonous religion in the world. With Hinduism, Pope Modi successfully drugged down every Indian.
I agree that su-57 is probably now the best choice around.
My reservations are 3:
1, su-57, shall it be introduced, will be a vivid symbol of personified management mistakes, going veeery high up. Rafale was su-57s replacement in procurement. It's a basic political question,Who replaced better jet with a worse one, for some french benefits. And this is a big, big political issue both for the government(15 billion), in the air force and even in the navy. Which is now in a terrible spotlight, too.
2, maybe India can tank through public pressure. Like, yes, Rafale lost its national champion status, and it's certainly too expensive for what it is, but saying it's now ineffective is arguably a step too far. Jet itself is still the same as the day before the strike.
3, as you said, su-57 is in many ways is a better Rafale on steroids. But one of the reasons rafale failure was so loud is this very secondary system-rich concept (paid a lot of money and internal volume on systems that failed to save it). Su-57 in many ways is a super rafale, 50% larger and better in every possible regard. It's unlike other 5th generation aircraft, that bet much deeper on stealth. It's ironically even the smallest nose within it's generation(twice better than rafale, but still - much like rafale radar is smaller than j-10, n036 is smaller than an/apg-81 of a smaller, single engined F-35).
And that's the point - su-57 itself may have received a similar conceptual hit.
All those arrays in different bands, redundant self-defense systems make best case for Russia itself, trying to protect and augment it's defenses against OTAN in the west.
For countries with a simpler requirement, it's 50% cost of the plane spent on equipment not equally contributing to the main task of the fighter.
Instead, maybe just better stealth geometry(which is always on, and which, one achieved, doesn't cost much money)?
It's even for Russia itself - su-57 is twice as expensive as Su-35, 3x the price of su-30sm. If you throw out inessential see stuff and just follow J-20/F-35/J-35 logic(which is T-75), maybe you can get similar or even stronger(geometry!) plane for half the price?
J-10 after all didn't just bested Rafale, it isn't painful (fighters win and lose). It bested it in a way where price difference between two deals fits entire Pak AEW fleet.
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FriedRiceNSpice
Captain
1 & 2) The first step to addressing the ineptness, corruption, and nepotism rampant across the military and government would be acknowledging it. But of course, who am I kidding - we know that will never happen. Instead, I'm sure the BJP can figure out some way to spin, distort, and scapegoat their way out of the mess. That is their forte after all. Recent events reveal the degree to which the Indian government can control and manipulate the narrative domestically. Any third word dictator or authoritarian party would be envious of the level of control that the Indian government has over its domestic media. Coupled with the fact that the majority of Indians are uneducated, thoroughly indoctrinated, and lacking the basic cognitive abilities to distinguish fact from fiction, I don't public pressure will be much issue at all. The Indian government can just announce that after a special investigation, top scientists confirmed without a doubt that the French purposely sabotaged the Rafales, and that Macron and the entire government of France kneeled to Modhi, kissed his feet and begged for his forgiveness, and returned $1 trillion back to India. And the delusional Indian masses will lap it right up.
3. Agree with your assessment of Su-57, but at the end of the day India would be getting a significantly more capable platform that addresses the main deficiency of the Rafale for overall less cost. Domestic assembly, partial domestic production, and transfer of technology are also significant non-combat advantages the Su-57 deal would have over the Rafale deal. Lastly, the ease with which the Su-57 can be integrated with other Russian platforms in Indian service via data-linking would bring about a multiplicate increase in capabilities for the IAF. At the end of the day, despite the J-10C being a very excellent 4.5th gen fighter, I don't believe it would come out on top against the Su-57.
They do not need to do anything. They won! 'No asset lost!' 'All Pilots returned home!' 'Multiple PAF bases and aircraft destroyed!' 'PAF in shambles!' 'PAK's Nuclear storage hit!' 莫迪老仙，法力无边！Jai Hind!
Its so funny when people in this forum whine about evil western propaganda and then write shit like that.
Short of J-10CE carrying some secretive super weapon, the Rafale is a better fighter 1 vs 1. PAF likely just has better networked platforms.
Su-57 should be much more capable than J-10C in just about every way.
The thing is the Indians bought Rafale to counter F-16s and JF-17s when they realised their MKIs were not going to give them guaranteed air superiority even in greater numbers. Rafale represented their silver bullet much like F-22 represented USAF's silver bullet of assured superiority back in the naughties. J-10CE purchase by PAF was a counter to the Rafale. To deny IAF guaranteed air superiority. It worked.
Su-57 if purchased would be yet another attempt to gain an overwhelming advantage. It'll bleed Indian economy dry if purchased in significant numbers but it would be something Pakistan cannot financially afford to match short of China donating J-35s.
AMCA isn't going to be inducted this decade and unlikely to be fielded in significant numbers even in the entirety of the next decade, if they even complete that.
India will get a slap in the face for turning back to the Su-57. They are probably hoping for F-35s now but they're quite realistic when it comes to dealing with Americans for anything military. It'll come with more strings attached than alternatives and no guarantee of function during wartime with Pakistan. Basically any potential IAF F-35 would only ever be allowed to be used against China.
I think IAF will double down on Rafale and simply try to improve their network and invest in CCA to supplement Rafale while working on making AMCA a workable next generation solution. There's also the potential route of joining GCAP. They can either have AMCA and a better domestic industry that comes with the AMCA journey or GCAP, not both.
Su-57 should be much more capable than J-10C in just about every way.
The thing is the Indians bought Rafale to counter F-16s and JF-17s when they realised their MKIs were not going to give them guaranteed air superiority even in greater numbers. Rafale represented their silver bullet much like F-22 represented USAF's silver bullet of assured superiority back in the naughties. J-10CE purchase by PAF was a counter to the Rafale. To deny IAF guaranteed air superiority. It worked.
Su-57 if purchased would be yet another attempt to gain an overwhelming advantage. It'll bleed Indian economy dry if purchased in significant numbers but it would be something Pakistan cannot financially afford to match short of China donating J-35s.
AMCA isn't going to be inducted this decade and unlikely to be fielded in significant numbers even in the entirety of the next decade, if they even complete that.
India will get a slap in the face for turning back to the Su-57. They are probably hoping for F-35s now but they're quite realistic when it comes to dealing with Americans for anything military. It'll come with more strings attached than alternatives and no guarantee of function during wartime with Pakistan. Basically any potential IAF F-35 would only ever be allowed to be used against China.
I think IAF will double down on Rafale and simply try to improve their network and invest in CCA to supplement Rafale while working on making AMCA a workable next generation solution. There's also the potential route of joining GCAP. They can either have AMCA and a better domestic industry that comes with the AMCA journey or GCAP, not both.
Lol what you quoted was correct. It's you who simply doesn't like the truth. Europe and US were instrumental in fracturing Yugoslavia. India has incredible central government control. As much as CPC has over China. India could only fracture based on dissatisfaction of its citizens but its citizens have the world's highest tolerance of living in absolute torturous conditions. If you put Japanese, Chinese, Swedish whatever citizens in Indian position, they'd have created a revolution decades ago.
The French guy is indeed a professional coper. It's very difficult to debate with him. He insists that so many PL-15 missiles w/ AEW&C planes could only shoot down one Rafale w/o AEW&C, which already proves Rafale's superiority. May people in this thread can help?
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FriedRiceNSpice
Captain
Despite its bells and whistles, Rafale's most significant disadvantage is detection range, which is incidentally the most important factor in fighter vs fighter scenarios.
FriedRiceNSpice
Captain
Why waste time arguing with nobodys/peasants.The French guy is indeed a professional coper. It's very difficult to debate with him. He insists that so many PL-15 missiles w/ AEW&C planes could only shoot down one Rafale w/o AEW&C, which already proves Rafale's superiority. May people in this thread can help?