The Chinese Cruiser, forget the carrier...

Wingman said:

I don't know if this has already been talked about but, isn't it more advantageous and cost effective to build cruisers with long range missiles instead of carriers?

Essentially, carriers hold aircraft which carry weapons a long distance and fire them.
Isn't this the same as a cruiser with long range missiles? Not only that, but missiles generally fly faster than aircraft. Missiles that aircraft fire generally have a weaker warhead and slower speed than ship-launched missiles.

So in the end, which is cheaper and more effective?
To design and build a high speed, super long range SAM and a SSM and a ship capable of firing it, or

To design and build a carrier, aircraft capable of taking off from the carrier, missiles for the aircraft, and spend lots of money maintaining the aircraft?

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stop thinking like the frecnch. missles will eventually replace aircraft one day, but thats far from now. aircraft can search and destry subs, launch torpoedoes, and engage other aircraft. they can provide fighter cover. and awacs. the plan doesnt have a long range naval cruise missle yet.

Wingman said:

I don't know if this has already been talked about but, isn't it more advantageous and cost effective to build cruisers with long range missiles instead of carriers?

Essentially, carriers hold aircraft which carry weapons a long distance and fire them.
Isn't this the same as a cruiser with long range missiles? Not only that, but missiles generally fly faster than aircraft. Missiles that aircraft fire generally have a weaker warhead and slower speed than ship-launched missiles.

So in the end, which is cheaper and more effective?
To design and build a high speed, super long range SAM and a SSM and a ship capable of firing it, or

To design and build a carrier, aircraft capable of taking off from the carrier, missiles for the aircraft, and spend lots of money maintaining the aircraft?

Click to expand...

Not necessarily.
Aircraft can carry more ordinance further than cruise missiles.
Aircraft can be recovered and rearmed. Once the missile is fired, it is gone.
Aircraft carriers are easy to rearm at sea. You need to be at port to reload your missiles. The further/faster the missile travels the more complicated the reloading process because these missiles are big.

The biggest cruiser is the Kirov, it can only carry 20 SS-N-19 missiles.
The biggest carrier is the Nimitz, it can carry 90 aircraft and can unleashed more firepower than 30 Kirovs.

IDonT said:

Not necessarily.
Aircraft can carry more ordinance further than cruise missiles.
Aircraft can be recovered and rearmed. Once the missile is fired, it is gone.
Aircraft carriers are easy to rearm at sea. You need to be at port to reload your missiles. The further/faster the missile travels the more complicated the reloading process because these missiles are big.

The biggest cruiser is the Kirov, it can only carry 20 SS-N-19 missiles.
The biggest carrier is the Nimitz, it can carry 90 aircraft and can unleashed more firepower than 30 Kirovs.

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the biggst "cruiser" is the kutznev.
Displacement: 67,500.0 (Tons) (Fully Loaded)
Length: 280.0 (Metres)
Beam: 37.0 (Metres)
Draught: 10.5 (Metres)
Flight Deck: 304.5 (Length Metres)
Flight Deck: 70.0 (Width Metres)
Speed: 30.0 (Knots)
Range: Unknown (Miles)


Missiles: SSM - 12 SS-N-19 Shipwreck launchers (Flush mounted)
SAM - 4 SA-N-9 Sextuple vertical launchers
SAM/Guns: 8 CADS-N-1; each with twin 30 mm Gatling
combined with 8 SA-N-1 1 and Hot Flash / Hot Spot fire
control radar/optronic director
Guns: 6-30 mm /65 AK 630 (6 barrels per mount)
Decoys: Chaff launching system

plus
Fixed Wing: 20 Su-27K Flanker D
4 Su-25 UTG Frogfoot
Helicopters: 15 Ka-27 Helix
3 Ka-29 Helix AEW

MIGleader, You are not comparing a Russian carrier to a Nimitz class are you?

Builder Newport News Shipbuilding Co., Newport News, Va.
Power Plant Two Nuclear Power Plant (A4W Pressurized Water Reactor)
Four shafts, Four propellers, with five blades each
Length, overall 1,092 feet (332.85 meters)
Flight Deck Width 252 feet (76.8 meters)
Beam 134 feet (40.84 meters)
Displacement Approx. 97,000 tons (87,300 metric tons) full load
Speed 30+ knots (34.5+ miles per hour)
Actual top speed is classified
Aircraft elevators Four
Catapults Four
Armament 4 Sea Sparrow launchers
3 Phalanx CIWS 20mm mounts [Nimitz & Ike]
4 Phalanx CIWS 20mm mounts [Vinson and later]
Combat Systems SPS-48E 3-D air search radar
SPS-49(V)5 2-D air search radar
3 Mk91 Fire Control

AN/SLQ-32(V)4 active jamming/deception
AN/WLR-1H ESM
Service Life 50 years

Air wing(2005)
48 F/A-18 Hornet variants
10 SH-60 SeaHawk Variants
4 E/A-6B Prowlers
4 E-2C Hawkeyes
2 C-2 Greyhound logistics

A Nimitz class needs the nuke plant refueled about every 13 years. However CVN's 68,69 & 70 all went 20 + years before refueling.

A Nimitz class can launch tactical air strikes around the clock for 5-7 days before it needs to be re-fueld with JP-5 and re-armed with air launched weapons.

A Nimitz class and re-fuel and re-arm at sea with great profenciey.

A Nimitz class escorts provide AAW, ASW and ECM protection along with the ships own air wing.

The USN has 9 Nimitz class and is building one more. In addition the steel has been cut for CVN-78..a new class of CVN.

bd popeye said:

MIGleader, You are not comparing a Russian carrier to a Nimitz class are you?

Builder Newport News Shipbuilding Co., Newport News, Va.
Power Plant Two Nuclear Power Plant (A4W Pressurized Water Reactor)
Four shafts, Four propellers, with five blades each
Length, overall 1,092 feet (332.85 meters)
Flight Deck Width 252 feet (76.8 meters)
Beam 134 feet (40.84 meters)
Displacement Approx. 97,000 tons (87,300 metric tons) full load
Speed 30+ knots (34.5+ miles per hour)
Actual top speed is classified
Aircraft elevators Four
Catapults Four
Armament 4 Sea Sparrow launchers
3 Phalanx CIWS 20mm mounts [Nimitz & Ike]
4 Phalanx CIWS 20mm mounts [Vinson and later]
Combat Systems SPS-48E 3-D air search radar
SPS-49(V)5 2-D air search radar
3 Mk91 Fire Control

AN/SLQ-32(V)4 active jamming/deception
AN/WLR-1H ESM
Service Life 50 years

Air wing(2005)
48 F/A-18 Hornet variants
10 SH-60 SeaHawk Variants
4 E/A-6B Prowlers
4 E-2C Hawkeyes
2 C-2 Greyhound logistics

A Nimitz class needs the nuke plant refueled about every 13 years. However CVN's 68,69 & 70 all went 20 + years before refueling.

A Nimitz class can launch tactical air strikes around the clock for 5-7 days before it needs to be re-fueld with JP-5 and re-armed with air launched weapons.

A Nimitz class and re-fuel and re-arm at sea with great profenciey.

A Nimitz class escorts provide AAW, ASW and ECM protection along with the ships own air wing.

The USN has 9 Nimitz class and is building one more. In addition the steel has been cut for CVN-78..a new class of CVN.

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A spending more to get more. Nobody in the world is a threat to the US. Current carriers are more than enough for those Terrorists I presume ??

USS Theodore Roosevelt CVN-71.. A Nimitz Class

A spending more to get more. Nobody in the world is a threat to the US. Current carriers are more than enough for those Terrorists I presume ??

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Spending money? Of course that what the US does. The DoD budget is under great scruinty. They would not spend it if they did not have it. It's in the budget.

No threats to the US? Not now. It's called "deterrence" , Force projection, in fact the carrier pictured CVN-71 nick name is the "Big Stick"

Terroist? They are not effected by USN carrier strenght. But those nations that are concerned about it..are really concerned....Deterrence.

Nice thread..Gotta go to work...

Su-27 Pilot said:

A spending more to get more. Nobody in the world is a threat to the US. Current carriers are more than enough for those Terrorists I presume ??

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Imposing Pax Americana policy near its home turf <cough>:



"The Invasion was opposed by the British government, as Grenada was part of the Commonwealth of Nations, and Queen Elizabeth was head of state as Queen of Grenada. Grenada requested help from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. Margaret Thatcher contacted Ronald Reagan, telling him “in the strongest possible terms” that “Grenada was part of the British Commonwealth, and the United States had no business interfering in its affairs.” Reagan assured her that an invasion was not contemplated. Reagan later said “She was very adamant and continued to insist that we cancel our landings on Grenada. I couldn't tell her that it had already begun” "



"On December 22 the Organization of American States passed a resolution deploring the invasion (Panama) and calling for withdrawal of U.S. troops. A similar resolution was passed on December 29 by the United Nations General Assembly. Earlier, a Security Council resolution condemning the invasion had been vetoed by the United States, United Kingdom and France (See Facts on File, December 31, 1989 reference)."

After the invasion, governments throughout Latin America — including the government of Chile under Augusto Pinochet, which was generally supportive of United States policies — issued statements condemning the invasion and calling for the immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops. One of the reasons Bush gave for the invasion, the reestablishment of democracy in Panama, was widely viewed with suspicion, since the United States was perceived throughout Latin America as serving its own strategic or economic interests, often at the expense of democratic principles. Noriega himself was considered to be a former puppet of the United States who had cooperated with American efforts to destabilize the Sandinista regime in Nicaragua. It is generally believed that during that time the United States did little to curtail his involvement in drug trafficking."

popeye, why would a i compare a meager russian carrier to the almighty nimitz? im just showing the stats of the kutznev, the worlds most capable
"cruiser". if i wanted to compare, i would need the orel stats.

MIGleader said:

popeye, why would a i compare a meager russian carrier to the almighty nimitz? im just showing the stats of the kutznev, the worlds most capable
"cruiser". if i wanted to compare, i would need the orel stats.

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Sorry MIGleader. I thought you were. My"bad" as they say.

But..I don't think the Kuznetsov is a cruiser. To me it is a CV. It is just very heavily armed. It could sail with limited escorts.