.Unless youve forgotten A Mace raised the question of the genocide in Indonesia. it in the Egyptian crisis thread in which you also added a comment. At the time I had some doubt about his statement at the time but let it pass Nor was it ever my intention to draw parallels between the Indonesian and Boxer topics. I'm merely confirming Hendriks statement so that I can point out a variance of views.
For instance in the Egyptian Crisis thread post 97 A Mace says
"
differing to what Wiki as well as Hendrik2000 suggested " That is the reason why they are hated because they are considered as comprador to the Dutch"
and his post 88 in the same thread which is nothing but a Grosley misleading statement.
Its quite clear that hes taken a number and present it as the truth to sensationalize the tragedy 0f 1965. He conveniently leaves out a point that most creditable sources point out prior to giving out numbers , "no one really knows the numbers and ethnic make up of the deaths which certainly wer'ent all Chinese and at best should be treated as estimates only as no one from the West/or reliable was counting.
"
Meanwhile some people point to The Suharto Govt claims of only around 87-90000 were killed.as being the true number wiki suggests
.
The killings have been largely omitted from Indonesian history textbooks, which depicted the killings as a "patriotic campaign" that resulted in less than 80,000 deaths
Meanwhile the extreme left sources claim up to 2 million were killed.
"The fact is most people killed in 1965/66, and the total number ranges anywhere from several hundred thousands to two million, take your pick, were not Chinese, they were poor, landless, or seen to be squatting, Javanese Muslims. It was a kind of jihad, but one not directed at Chinese, least of all Buddhists, but largely at non-orthodox, non-devout, Muslims, generally the “abangan” social group."
Meanwhile this for the truely interested is worth taking a look at
"Report from East Java", available for viewing at Cornell (PDF).
A separate post that touches on this subject is East Java Pogroms.
It gives a rather vivid report by Indonesia sources as their militia/security/miltary set about their gruesome task. It is worth noting that their daily reports refer to spontaneous killings at grass root level or hate killings as a result of decades of resentment for the Chinese
What can I conclude from this? A mace is only interested in the numbers for Chinese deaths and ignore the balance as he wants to see it. Therefore all his puffery about genocide is nothing but an act.
Well acting as compradors for the Dutch they certainly enjoyed a better life than the indigenous people and they go to accumulate a great deal of wealth at their expense as well
and the below link certainly highlights the privileges /advantages they obtained over the indigenous peoples
oh dear, I thought you were well read enough, that a vague hint about Tibet would be enough and thus avoid the need to have to go into gruesome details. Heres a couple anyway
Straight from the BBC a few yrs back
"British filmmakers have emerged from three months undercover in Tibet to release a terrifying portrayal of Chinese repression, including shootings, torture and the brutal sterilisation of women left maimed by crude operations.
Their film, to be shown tomorrow night as part of Channel 4's Dispatches series, was made before the recent outbreak of anti-Chinese rioting in the Tibetan capital, Lhasa.
But with hundreds of jailed Tibetan protesters now in fear for their lives, the harrowing footage will add to the storm of condemnation gathering ahead of the Beijing Olympics this year.
The documentary's investigation began with the notorious 2006 shootings on the Nangpa La pass, when unarmed Tibetans trying to leave the country were gunned down by Chinese border guards.
Two Tibetans were killed and 32 detained, interrogated and then sent to a labour camp 150 miles from Lhasa.
The experiences of one of those held, Jamyang Samten, now 16, gives a clue to the fate of Tibetan protesters now in the hands of the Chinese police.
He told the programme makers he was given electric shocks with a cattle prod, chained to a wall and hit in the stomach by a guard wearing a metal glove.
If he made a minor mistake in his interrogation, he would be beaten with a chain.
"The way the Chinese tortured was terrifying," he said.
"They beat us using their full strength. Sometimes they forced us to take off our clothes. We were locked up in a room with our arms and legs handcuffed and they beat us. The chain injured the surface but not the inside of the body.
"If they hit us with the electric baton, our entire body trembled and gradually we were unable to speak."
Jamyang was eventually released and finally made it over the border to Kathmandu in Nepal after paying a guide the equivalent of £210.
Tibetan women are also forcibly prevented from having children, despite supposedly being exempt from China's strict birth-control laws, the film's director Jezza Neumann discovered.
Measures include monitoring menstrual cycles, forced abortions and sterilisation if women cannot afford a fine for having a second child.
One woman, a married farmer, described her agony at a forced sterilisation operation without anaesthetic.
She could not afford the fine, equivalent to £70, and was one of six in her village who went through the ordeal.
"I was forcibly taken away against my will. I was feeling sick and giddy and couldn't look up," she said."
Not quite like the Boxer period I admit, but then again "different crimes for different times"
and how about the shooting of those Tibeteans that was caught on film
Did the "Peoples Daily make any comment on the matter. like,.....
"The PLA regretfully report that after carefully linning up their targets, our glorious soldiers trigger fingers accidentally slipped and consequently a young girl who was fleeing from us ,was shot in the back".
Although this is only one incidence that was caught on film, there's always the possibility these things have been going since occupation and still are, the numbers might easily exceed the 5000 the Americans marked down for an untimely death in Indonesia.
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