The Boxer Rebellion 1900-01

Hendrik_2000 said:

Where did you get the idea that Chinese is relieving Indonesian nobility of their land and precious stone

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Decades ago I asked a student who was studying here under the "Colombo Plan" as to why he had a attitude problem towards his fellow Indonesian students of Chinese descent. What he told me differs slightly to your account although there are some similarities.

anyway i looked up Wiki and while it acknowledges that ethnic Chinese had difficulty acquiring land due to colonial policies it goes on to say....

"

Souw Beng Kong, the Kapitan Cina ("Captain of the Chinese") of Banten, for example, organized a large-scale immigration of Chinese under his rule to Batavia in the 17th century. This significantly destabilized the regional economy and facilitated Dutch conquest of the Sultanate of Banten.


"As a reward, Souw was made the first Kapitein der Chinezen of Batavia in 1619. His successors and later, the Majoors der Chinezen, were given landed fiefdoms... Peranakan (chinese descendant )families controlled a great deal of Java's land and wealth, confiscated by the Dutch from the native (pribumi) aristocracy "

Anyway my whole point is that the Chinese did not need the Europeans to teach them how to mistreat their fellow human beings.
Anyway thanks for clarifying the issue of why the indigneous people disliked the Chinese.

AssassinsMace said:

Looky here. Now a supposed crime over a hundred years ago justifies Indonesians murdering half a million to a million innocent civilians in less than a month in 1965. Did China attack Indonesia for that? Love the precedent of that one. In context to that, it's laughable to suggest the actions against the Boxer Rebellion were justifiable because innocent civilian lives were at stake. .

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You can betcha that if she had the resources of the Americans she would have done something about it.
As a pointed out earlierChina was also guilty for stiring the pot in that region so she should also share the blame for what happened to her people.
By the way China is not adverse to using force in putting down rebellions as evidenced in 2008, so whose being a hypocryte now.

bladerunner said:

You can betcha that if she had the resources of the Americans she would have done something about it.
As a pointed out earlierChina was also guilty for stiring the pot in that region so she should also share the blame for what happened to her people.
By the way China is not adverse to using force in putting down rebellions as evidenced in 2008, so whose being a hypocryte now.

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Your arguments are laughable because your facts are only marginally related to history, and your world view only has a tenuous grasp on reality.

Why would it be up to China to stop a massacre against ethnic Chinese in other nations? Why did the US, champion of human rights, do nothing?

Would China have been in the wrong to intervene in the Indonesian massacre? Is China in the wrong for *NOT* intervening? If the CCP is as evil as you seem to think, then why would they even care? Since you seem to think that the CCP would surely have intervened if they could, you're basically suggesting that it's wrong to do something about a genocide.

Kind of explains why you're trying to justify a genocide. Again.

You notice how in the Tibetans and Uighur riots targetting civilians in recent years China was the bad guy for cracking down. But the Boxer Rebellion against oppressive Western rule was illegal so it was their right to stop the threat to Western colonial rule in the name of saving innocent Christians.

The fact is the only consistency in their many hypocrisies and contradictions on what's right is simply because they say so. It's just like a cult. The leaders in power contradict themselves not because they don't know the rules they spell out for everyone. There's purpose in their contradictions. The aim is to numb everyone so their will be no thinking for one's self and blind obedience established. We were all called PRC drones by a newbie recently who you don't see anymore in here just because posters dared to question and challenge her canned arguments on why China has to obey in the guise of democracy and human rights. But the irony is that poster was angry by the very priciples of democracy and human rights exercised in questioning that's posters arguments. PRC drone to their drone.

bladerunner said:

You can betcha that if she had the resources of the Americans she would have done something about it.
As a pointed out earlierChina was also guilty for stiring the pot in that region so she should also share the blame for what happened to her people.
By the way China is not adverse to using force in putting down rebellions as evidenced in 2008, so whose being a hypocryte now.

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So are you saying because of a ficticious scenario you made up that never happen in 1965, it's justifies Western colonial rule over China a hundred years before? So now you guys get to punish people today for crimes you predict will happen in the future that never happened. Is that like how you saw a threat from Chinese girls wearing Hello Kitty t-shirts walking acrosss the street? Can you explain the threat from that? You mentioned it without any explanation as if there will be people akin with a wink who would know what you were talking about. I would really like to know what is the threat as you stated before of Chinese girls wearing Hello Kitty t-shirts walking across the street. Or how about that ficticious threatening onslaught of Chinese chicken invading America that you were outraged about? And you accused me of paranoia.

And you would've been a hypocrite and complained that was illegal for China to act when Indonesians were slaughtering innocent civilians. And what was the difference between the Boxer Rebellion and the 1965 slaughter of innocent civilians? China wasn't occupying Indonesia like the West was with China. Love that democracy and human rights at work.

AssassinsMace said:

So are you saying because of a ficticious scenario you made up that never happen in 1965, it's justifies Western colonial rule over China a hundred years before? So now you guys get to punish people today for crimes you predict will happen in the future that never happened. Is that like how you saw a threat from Chinese girls wearing Hello Kitty t-shirts walking acrosss the street? Can you explain the threat from that. You mentioned it without any explanation as if there will be people akin who would know what you were talking about. I would really like to know what is the threat as you stated before of Chinese girls wearing Hello Kitty t-shirts walking across the street.

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1/ I dont have a clue what fictious scenario you are accusing me of making up.

2/ At least British colonial rule in Hong Kong gave the people there a higher standard of living than they would have experienced under communist or nationalist rule

3/ Do you have some kind of fetish for Kitty T Shirts.

I would really like to know what is the threat as you stated before of Chinese girls wearing Hello Kitty t-shirts walking across the street.[

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I dont believe I ever said any such thing unless I was quoting you

And you would've been a hypocrite and complained that was illegal for China to act when Indonesians were slaughtering innocent civilians. And what was the difference between the Boxer Rebellion and the 1965 slaughter of innocent civilians? China wasn't occupying Indonesia like the West was iwth China. Love that democracy and human rights at work.

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However FYI you have absolutely no idea what i would have said

@ Bladerunner -- re the whole hello kitty thing (lol), I think A mace is referring to one of your posts a year or so back when you said a NZ radio station was saying how asian girls playing "chicken" on the roads were just waiting to get splattered along with their hello kitty shirts (or something along those lines). The tone you wrote it in, or at least the way I read it was a bit mocking and spiteful, but I'm not sure what point A mace is making exactly.

bladerunner said:

By the way China is not adverse to using force in putting down rebellions as evidenced in 2008, so whose being a hypocryte now.

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I think the point isn't that China is not hypocritical, but rather that the West is -- basically they're as bad as we are/were if not worse. That's also arguably a larger problem because everyone listens to the West and takes their version of history and news to be true... Or something along those lines.

But I think this is a good thread -- I'm learning things about this era I never knew before. It's a shame these less well known portions of history aren't shown on the history channel or nat geo or what not... instead they tend to focus on WWII half the time :/

bladerunner said:

However FYI you have absolutely no idea what i would have said

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You understand your own mind?

You said if China had the means to attack Indonesia, it would've. So you're vilifying China for a "what-if" sceanario that never happened to which this whole debate in context with the Boxer Rebellion centers on whether or not the West had the right to stop a rebellion against Western oppressive rule. So since you're saying China did what the West did in an imaginary scenario that never happened in real life, it justifies what the West did during the Boxer Rebellion.

C'mon guys..play nice...And stay on topic..I'm trying to be a nice guy!

popeye

Bltizo said:

@ Bladerunner -- re the whole hello kitty thing (lol), I think A mace is referring to one of your posts a year or so back when you said a NZ radio station was saying how asian girls playing "chicken" on the roads were just waiting to get splattered along with their hello kitty shirts (or something along those lines). The tone you wrote it in, or at least the way I read it was a bit mocking and spiteful, but I'm not sure what point A mace is making exactly.



I think the point isn't that China is not hypocritical, but rather that the West is -- basically they're as bad as we are/were if not worse. That's also arguably a larger problem because everyone listens to the West and takes their version of history and news to be true... Or something along those lines.

But I think this is a good thread -- I'm learning things about this era I never knew before. It's a shame these less well known portions of history aren't shown on the history channel or nat geo or what not... instead they tend to focus on WWII half the time :/

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I'm being sarcastic. I went out on a limb giving him the benefit of the doubt he's not a racist for bringing up that from out of nowhere in forum like this. So I spun it making it a Chinese military threat to be in context with the theme of this forum for bringing up something so superficial that has nothing to do with military discussion. He just needs to explain that comment so we'll know the truth to his motivations.