Taiwan plans to build 500 cruise missiles

SampanViking said:

Possibly Chen might try military action in the hope of dragging others to his aid

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Taiwan will never attack China. The first military strike will come from the mainland, if one comes at all.

It should be possible for China to do nothing and let Mr Chen's efforts simply boost support for the Pan Blue parties and enhance China's International reputation as a responsible power.

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The Taiwan confllict hardly "enchances China's international reputation as a responsible power". It has only undermined such a reputation, if that ever existed - primarily by passing the Anti-Secession Law. China might think it is acting "responsibly", but I think its actions are only making other countries laugh behind its back. If it had simply ignored the issue over the Council, then that might have made the international community regard it more favourably. But coming up with the usual, tired rhetoric reinforced the usual views about Chinese politics and the government.

Mr Clean actually has the solution. By removing those missiles, China would do a lot to improve its reputation, whilst giving the Pan-Greens one less weapon in their arsenal. The fact that the mainland increases the number of missiles every year only makes Chinese "overtures" to Taiwan seem hypocritical to Taiwanese and people around the world. It's a shame that mainland Chinese can't see that either.

FuManChu said:

Taiwan will never attack China. The first military strike will come from the mainland, if one comes at all.

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Never say never.

The Taiwan confllict hardly "enchances China's international reputation as a responsible power". It has only undermined such a reputation, if that ever existed - primarily by passing the Anti-Secession Law. China might think it is acting "responsibly", but I think its actions are only making other countries laugh behind its back. If it had simply ignored the issue over the Council, then that might have made the international community regard it more favourably. But coming up with the usual, tired rhetoric reinforced the usual views about Chinese politics and the government.

Mr Clean actually has the solution. By removing those missiles, China would do a lot to improve its reputation, whilst giving the Pan-Greens one less weapon in their arsenal. The fact that the mainland increases the number of missiles every year only makes Chinese "overtures" to Taiwan seem hypocritical to Taiwanese and people around the world. It's a shame that mainland Chinese can't see that either.

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What the other countries see China is beside the point. China is far more concern with what chinese people think. International community you are talking about are mostly western nations, I doubt many third world countries give a damn about taiwan conflict. Anti-secession law is for the chinese people.

If china do as you said, China will be laugable jokes in the world. The Pan-greens will never stop their intention no matter what. The reputation will have zero affect on many issues, and china will have hard time to convince the Pan-green or world. It is a shame that you always assumpt the naive approach for the world political matters. China would do things to soften the relationship but it will not be foolish enough to believe that they could make a dfferent by giving up their missiles.

FreeAsia2000 said:

So essentially Chen is now locked in a box.

What happens if Chen seeks greater military co-operation with Japan ?

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co-operate with japan against china is a dangerous thing to do, don't forget the background of taiwanese army is the KMT army, which fought against the japanese in the II WW. If Chen get too close with the japanese millitary, unexpected things could happen in his own army.

co-operate with japan against china is a dangerous thing to do, don't forget the background of taiwanese army is the KMT army, which fought against the japanese in the II WW. If Chen get too close with the japanese millitary, unexpected things could happen in his own army.

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well this is almoust as stubid to say that when Finnish army has relationships to Bundeswehr, The Nazis are going to re-intervene into Russia. Comon, little sensibility may I ask? Thougth it much fit in chinese nationalistic rubbish to make up conspiracy theoryes over sixty years old event, I think the clever rest of us knows that the real world functions in bit different levels. So dont speed up this allready edgy threads up coming closure by flaming another japanese bashing contest.ff

Gollevainen said:

well this is almoust as stubid to say that when Finnish army has relationships to Bundeswehr, The Nazis are going to re-intervene into Russia. Comon, little sensibility may I ask? Thougth it much fit in chinese nationalistic rubbish to make up conspiracy theoryes over sixty years old event, I think the clever rest of us knows that the real world functions in bit different levels. So dont speed up this allready edgy threads up coming closure by flaming another japanese bashing contest.ff

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Golly, I don't see what you mean about that. Chen might want to seek closer relationship with Japan, but in Taiwan military there is some faction who don't like Japan much.

If you don't know, please don't say others stupid or nationalististic conspiracy thoery. The taiwan do have sea dispute with Japan, some area especially the fishing communities dislike the Japanese because they have been bully by japanese navy. There are still many people who hate Japanese for the 50 years of colonized. There are some KMT military people who still have position in Taiwan military and they are not fond of Japanese. Even the majority Taiwanese might be fond of Japan, there are also people have resentment against Japanese.

But off course Chen could still manage to cooperation with Japan, much of the taiwanese probably will be OK with that.

Golly, I don't see what you mean about that. Chen might want to seek closer relationship with Japan, but in Taiwan military there is some faction who don't like Japan much.

If you don't know, please don't say others stupid or nationalististic conspiracy thoery.

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Thrust me, past is past...afull lot of can happen in 60 years...Nations once enemyes now allies and so on. Digging up possiple scenarios based on past misconducts are conspiracy theoryes, nothing more...

Any or other way around, this thread is about taiwanese missiles, not about japanese so no excuses for bad behaivior! Back in the line private!

Gollevainen said:

Thrust me, past is past...afull lot of can happen in 60 years...Nations once enemyes now allies and so on.

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That i will agree.

Digging up possiple scenarios based on past misconducts are conspiracy theoryes, nothing more...

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Not entirely true, past do affect persent but it depends on the situation. For now Taiwan and Japan will enjoy good relationship. but if situation change a bit things may be different. I don't think you know just few months back, KMT leaders have aboard a warship to inspect the area that have dispute with Japan. Many years ago, hundred of Taiwanese fishing ships join by HK and China people sail to the dispute island to protest against Japan. Majority of the Taiwanese are fond of Japanese now, but the dispute is not limited with history.

Any or other way around, this thread is about taiwanese missiles, not about japanese so no excuses for bad behaivior! Back in the line private!

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I would not have agree more, but I don't see any Japan bashing maybe some people do make it into off topic including me.

So everyone back to topic, "TAIWAN MISSILES" .

KYli said:

If china do as you said, China will be laugable jokes in the world. The Pan-greens will never stop their intention no matter what.... China would do things to soften the relationship but it will not be foolish enough to believe that they could make a dfferent by giving up their missiles.

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Did I call for these missiles to be destroyed? There's a difference between disarming and not pointing lots of bombs at someone. Is the US, UK, Russia's nuclear deterant any less devastating by them not targetting each other 24/7? China would quite obviously keep their missiles in reserve, ready to use later. China hardly needs them ready to go at a moment's notice, especially as it would take time to muster an invasion force anyway.

Why would China be laughed at?! This isn't some macho-hard-nut world where people shout "Chicken" if you back down from a fight. China would be lauded for trying to ease tensions. How could it reflect badly? You really think the Taiwanese people would think Chen "standing up" to the mainland would have done that, especially given that he never has talks with Beijing? If you do then I think you underestimate them. An act of friendship from the mainland by removing the missiles would boost the Pan Blues. But until something like that happens any other meaningless gestures like talking about fruits won't change anything.

Wow!! It has been busy here tonight.

Without posting loads of quotes lets try and answer some main points. Chen may try to do something with Japan like er ...... buy some missiles
but ultimately I think Japan realises it can probably get more out of China for not associating with Taiwan than it could ever get by associating with Chen. Not so far fetched, constructive talks have been going on behind the scenes this week between China and Japan.

As too China removing its missiles. This is something it will be doing in order to show appreciation with a more friendly Taiwanese Administration. I would not rule out a few very public deployment reductions, over the next couple of years in response to assurances or appeals from the KMT as to their good intentions when they regain office.

Ultimately though I think Chen has little room for maneouver in any meaningful sense, and dramatic gestures will only bring denunciation from even his best "friends" abroad. Yes I do not discount that Army Officers and Judges etc will consider their future prospects beyond the next two years very carefully.

As for any Cruise Missiles, do you seriously believe the US would reward Chen with such weapons; even if he could get the expenditure through the Pan Blue dominated legislature, after what he has said and done, against US wishes over the last month?

I really do not think so

FuManChu said:

Did I call for these missiles to be destroyed? There's a difference between disarming and not pointing lots of bombs at someone.

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I know what you mean, but I don't see why China would want to relocate the missiles unless they could gain more meaningful objective. Unless they are sure conflict will be unlikely, removing the missies now will show weakness in front of chinese and pan-green Taiwanese.

Is the US, UK, Russia's nuclear deterant any less devastating by them not targetting each other 24/7? China would quite obviously keep their missiles in reserve, ready to use later. China hardly needs them ready to go at a moment's notice, especially as it would take time to muster an invasion force anyway.

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We don't know how US, Russia and others do with their nuclear deteration, and they do have much more mean to deliver the nuclear than just missiles in the land. Nobody keep their missiles in reserve, it will take forever to get ready. Whether they might not load missiles with munition but US and Russia do have the ability to fire their missiles in matter of minutes. China do not have the ability.

Why would China be laughed at?! This isn't some macho-hard-nut world where people shout "Chicken" if you back down from a fight. China would be lauded for trying to ease tensions. How could it reflect badly? You really think the Taiwanese people would think Chen "standing up" to the mainland would have done that, especially given that he never has talks with Beijing? If you do then I think you underestimate them. An act of friendship from the mainland by removing the missiles would boost the Pan Blues. But until something like that happens any other meaningless gestures like talking about fruits won't change anything.

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The USSR has gotten praise for what they did in 80, but what happened later. The world political only care about power and influence, it will better be tough than chicken. Many taiwanese might see good gestures in Chinese action, but the Pan-green will only see it as weakness. Do keep in mind Pan-green ultimate goal is independent which China will not allow. Secondly, things might go other way for China, maybe taiwanese will see it as a sign of soft stance on China so they will choose DDP for continued move toward independent.

The only meaningful peaceful settlement between China and Taiwan could only go both ways, until somebody in Taiwan willing to seriously talk to China. Any radical move from China will only mean weakness in front of chinese people.