Taiwan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

kliu0

Junior Member
This whole thing is rising from news to getting political, stop this before the moderators lock the thread or ban someone.

Lets just wait and see what happens after the Beijing Olympics, meanwhile I'll update this thread with news and we can all opinionate on news without emphasis on politics.
 

kliu0

Junior Member
If any of you have been watching Taiwan news (TV) theres a shocking story that the military is getting so cheap that they have fake guards protecting military bases. I just can't believe that is happening. The military's reply is that they are trying to trick the enemy......

How the hell are you going to trick the enemy when the fake guards dont move and have ridiculous poses.....
 
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otester

Guest
These are issues that surprisingly pops up in anime discussion groups too, but to keep thing short and simple, in spite of both the good and the bad that has happened the Chinese public identifies with the underlying goals of the CCP wrt national development and criticizes it when it falls short. This criticism lies more in constructive criticism (wanting better) rather than the more ideologically 'Communist=Evil' that often appears in western media.

From what I have heard the CCP does have a constitution that does technically allow freedom (like in Western countries) but the rules are regularly circumvented and people are purged for dissidence, I haven't personally watched the media in China (English subtitles needed) so I don't know how they portray dissident people.

It seems Western governments are now going down the same path and beginning to circumvent our rights to, so soon our public will be in the same position as yours.
 
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otester

Guest
These are issues that surprisingly pops up in anime discussion groups too, but to keep thing short and simple, in spite of both the good and the bad that has happened the Chinese public identifies with the underlying goals of the CCP wrt national development and criticizes it when it falls short. This criticism lies more in constructive criticism (wanting better) rather than the more ideologically 'Communist=Evil' that often appears in western media.

From what I have heard the CCP does have a constitution that does technically allow freedom (like in Western countries) but the rules are regularly circumvented and people are purged for dissidence, I haven't personally watched the media in China (English subtitles needed) so I don't know how they portray dissident people.

It seems Western governments are now going down the same path and beginning to circumvent our rights to, so soon our public will be in the same position as yours.
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
Otester, please understand that military forums attract not only enthusiasts, but also nationalists. Any kind of political exchange would quickly end up in a flame war.

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As for the current ROC military procurement, as I've said earlier in this thread, new purchases from abroad (US) is always politically violate, not only within ROC government but also US and PRC relations.

Instead of always begging for scraps from the US, the sensible thing for ROC to do is to build up its own defense industry, with a mix of imported and domestic technologies.

South Africa was under arms embargo for decades, yet its defense industry, represented by companies like ARMSCOR, Atlas, IST Dynamics, Denel, etc. were able to produce all kinds of goodies.
 
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kliu0

Junior Member
Taiwan currently already has the ability to build the IDF fighter planes, UH-1H, F-5s, they can build turrets for tanks (M60A3, CM32 etc) and of course APC such as the CM32. The only major problem with the advancement of the Taiwanese defence industry is that there is too little funding. The government only looks to their own defence industry when all else fails. Right now, under these circumstances I presume that they would continue funding and perhaps increase the budget of Taiwan's defence industry to develop and upgrade their military. As mentioned before Taiwan is currently going to upgrade their IDF to C/D standards.

Taiwan already mass produces ammunition, and has a substantial amount of investment in their missile R&D and production. So it should take substantially less than a decade for Taiwan to fully build up its defence industry, with the right amount of funding of course.
 

sinowarrior

Junior Member
the problem for Taiwan is it lacks the budget and production capability for military hardware procurements even if there is the political will of the government. With the current economy and industrial production capability, China can easily ovetaken taiwan in either weapon purchasing or production progames
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
Since I proposed upgrades (for discussion), let's look at what the ROC military has and what is realistically within reach. To start, let's look at the ROC Army, sadly equipped with many Vietnam-era gear. Here's a picture of locally-built CM-32 IFV with 105mm turret, and a truck chassis 155m SP:

20070825.jpg


The ROC defense industry has locally produced CM-32 IFV, CM-21 APC (M113) & variants (CM21-27), 117mm MLRS (Kung Feng, Thunderbolt 2000 by CIST), UH-1H (by AIDC), etc. Some ROC Army vehicle photos can be found here:
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Current MBT inventory includes 480 x M60A3, 550 x M48/H (CM11/12), and 675 x M41. The M41's role is slated to be replaced by the wheeled CM-32.

Since M1A2 imports would be expensive and politically controversial, I think the ROC Army should look at M60-2000/120S upgrade package as an interim solution. This upgrade includes new turret with 120mm M256 gun, power pack, transmission, export-grade (M1A1) armor and FCS package. These parts can be imported from the US, and a M60 rebuild plant set up in Taiwan to rebuild and install the new components. The upgrade kits can be ordered in batches, it's cheaper and less politically volatile.

Looking to the future, the upgrade path would be: imported M1A2 (later) replacing M60's role as primary front-line MBT, upgraded M60-2000/120S replacing CM11/CM12, and CM32 replacing M41. The Vietnam-war era M41 and M48's would be retired for storage or scrapping.


For light armored vehicles the ROC Army probably has over 900 x M113 APC and its variants (CM21-27), few hundred assorted other types, and 600 CM-32 planned. Many of the M113 APC in ROC Army inventory has been upgraded with better armor. However I see 2 areas in need of improvement: remote-controlled overhead weapon station, and ATGM's.

Most of the ROC Army APC photos I've seen show gunners manning weapons on top. If you're going to upgrade armor package for better protection, why stick the gunner and commander outside to get shot at? The Israelis produced some nice remote-controlled weapon stations for their vehicles:
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Ideally, a remote-controlled weapon station shouldn't take too much space inside the vehicle, and have both remote-control (closed hatch) and manual operator (open hatch) modes. In the event of system failure, the gun should have manual operator mode. This kind of system should be easy enough for ROC defense industry to develop themselves.

For the CM-32, I think they should look into an auto-cannon + ATGM turret version. Perhaps large caliber AC too. The ATGM can be mounted in sealed box launchers externally. If we look at recent Lebanon conflict, ATGM's have proven itself as an excellent weapon against both enemy armor and fixed/fortified positions, such as taking out a building. The ATGM's can be imported, while the turret/system design and install done locally.

For Artillery, the assorted M109A? SP can be upgraded to M109A6 PIM specs. Locally built 155mm SP can supplement the artillery needs. The ROC Army has a lot of WW2 and Vietnam era artillery pieces that can probably be retired.

The ROC Army has some M1097 Avengers and couple thousand Humvee's. Recently the US troops in Iraq has pressed for an upgrade to the Avenger system, replacing one of the missile pods with FLIR/laser sensors and a .50 cal MG with 650 rounds w/360 degree firing arc. The troops are also asking for a variant with 1 x quad Stinger SAM pod, and 1 x dual Javelin ATGM pod integrated with sensor pod and .50 MG w/600 rounds.

This is something that the ROC Army can look into for a light & fast weapon platform, based on Humvee chassis with crew of 3. The ROC defense industry can develop such modifications and refit to existing Humvee chassis, or build new ones. Perhaps with weapon load of 4 x ATGM, 2 x SAM, and 1 x .50 cal MG. Great for light mobile infantry support. Here's the Japanese domestic version with SAMs:

JGSDF_Koukidousha_%28TOYOTA%29_10.jpg


For army aviation, I think they have 60 x AH-1W and 80 x UH-1H. AIDC built the UH-1H under license so I'm sure they have build/rebuild capability. As interim solution I'd suggest rebuilding them to AH-Z & UH-1Y specs. The UH-1Y rebuild has newer/better rotor, engine, protection, avionics, payload, range, and speed, plus added external weapon stations. They can be rebuild from UH-1H airframe and has 84% parts commonality with AH-1W for better logistics.

The AH-1/UH-1 rebuild would serve as an interim solution to acquiring new helicopters, then serve in supplemental role to newly acquired helicopters (AH-64D, UH-60M). New helicopters are very expensive and it'd be difficult for the ROC Army to replace older ones on 1 to 1 basis. But rebuild older helicopters are cheaper and less politically volatile to import the parts for local assembly/rebuild.
 
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