Taiwan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Mr T

Senior Member
You need to read between the lines, not pick on isolated statements ignoring the context. The author is trying to make some seemingly sensible arguments for a new arm sales policy to Taiwan based on reality. The last paragraph is the key conclusion.

The article doesn't make any suggestions as to what this new strategy should be. It can be summarised as saying "don't do what we're doing now - we'll figure the details of a new policy later". The authors objected to the F-16 sales last year in another article. My guess is that they would object to any significant arms sales. I've seen articles by some other writers who have sometimes criticised purchases like new F-16s but at the same time made suggestions like making Taiwan a hard nut to crack via more sales of things like anti-ship missiles. These sales are the sort of things sceptics of current/previous arms sales should be welcoming if they're actually being genuine in calling for a new approach that works for Taiwan.

It's basically a garbage article. Apart from not saying what their alternative strategy is, it says arms sales may cause Taiwan to engage in "provocative behaviour" but the article it links to as evidence was their own article last year saying selling F-16s to Taiwan isn't good business. What - if Washington sells arms to Taiwan then Taiwan will provoke China by ordering more? That's a complete joke. It's like saying a kid that gets beaten up at school provokes the bully by attending self-defence classes after the bully demands he/she stops going and just agrees to hand over their lunch money every day.

Arm sales to Taiwan are more political statements and psychology boost for Taiwan people.

I would say that 400 Harpoon IIs with launchers are more than a political statement. However, you are partly right, continued military support via arms sales does boost Taiwanese morale and give them more of a feeling there is a point in resisting Chinese aggression as they're not entirely on their own.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
Arm sales to Taiwan are more political statements and psychology boost for Taiwan people. Eventually it might also provide an escape clause for a commitment that will increasingly become a liability rather than a leverage.

And, Taiwan is not an island nation.

I couldn't agree more. The thing is everyone knows that. The Republic of China knows that. The people's rebulic of China knows that. And least the USA knows that.

And gee. Someone here still harps on about Chinese aggression! Really. Who's had more conflict in the last 70 years than China. And China is the aggressor? Mind gymnastics on a Olympian scale.

In a decade of two. The gulf in capability would be so great. It'll be game over.
 

OppositeDay

Senior Member
Registered Member
Stupid CCP China is pushing Japan to make itself stronger. Japan isn't going to sit by and watch a very friendly and democratic Taiwan be assaulted and bombarded and conquered by a very unfriendly PRC government. Inflexible CCP China propaganda keeps Pro-CCP posters motivated in keeping on thinking and talking about conquest of Taiwan like addicts.

If there wasn't the whole Taiwan claim and the South China Sea 9 dash line claim, the rise of the PRC and modernization of its forces would not trigger the changing of the posture of many of the surrounding nations.

I'm afraid you have gotten it backwards. If U.S. and its allies have not failed to renounce the option to militarily intervene over Taiwan, then China wouldn't need to modernize its military at its current pace and a peaceful reunification would be much more likely.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
It is still silly. They should be training against F-16s or F-15s. That would imitate the J-10 or Flanker better. They keep doing this stitch as if the enemy will be a MiG-21 or something like that. Even the US suffers from the same problems in aggressor squadrons.
At least in Red Flag they fly against modern aircraft of other nations.
I don’t think it’s stilly at all I think you are trying to pigeonhole the function.
F16 is the main line fighter of the ROCAF so flying F16 vs F16 defeats the point of DACT.
Hell you point this out with your second line. USAF aggressor squadrons are primarily F16 models well Blueforces are primarily F16 models. This has been the case since the early 1990s the F15 was used for a period from 05 till 14 with plans for F35A early models to join the mix in 22.
USN Adversary squadrons use a mix of F5,F18,F16 well USMC fly F5. Again the main machines they face would be F18s and F/A18s. Yet even then the old machines are still valid.
The main performance issues that break between the types is the radar and sensors newer fighters have better avionics. DACT however is close up so those are less relevant.
for the record in REDFLAG the adversaries are primarily played by USAF 16 squadrons with the long rumored Red Eagles (Fulcrum and perhaps Flankers) and occasionally F35,F22 in the mix. The main issues for American Aggressor squadrons is there are not enough of them to match all the jobs required and the emergence of VLO air

ROC have no F15 to fly and it would be unbelievably expensive to maintain in just aggressor training. The point is to have an opponent who doesn’t match your exact performance in close combat maneuvers the D in DACT Dissimilar. With a small number of F16 until the new order is delivered it’s easier, more effective to use the older F5.
Mig21 and F5 are still amazing in aerobatics even vs the latests fighters where they lack is in long range attack. They are also notoriously difficult to detect these are small aircraft vs more modern types and can be operated when fitted with modern datalink systems in passive modes,
Yet again since the point is close up the radar system isn’t as big a deal. When it is it’s often vs more sophisticated air defense systems and as such then yeah you want more modern. Those have been retrofitted to degrees into such old machines.
So I don’t see it as silly. As for looking like Mig21 or J7 you could apply a J10 paint job to it but because of the configuration it would look like a J7. Frankly the paint scheme is only meant to make it easy to tell as “Alien”. You could paint it like a Romulan Bird of prey and it would still be as relevant for the job.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
ROC does not have F15s but the US and Japan do.
They could easily come to some arrangement for training.
 

silentlurker

Junior Member
Registered Member
Seems like flying a bunch of F15s to Taiwan just for training would be a pretty big pain to organize. Unless you permanently station them there, in which case you've kind of reverted to the original expense issue.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Seems like flying a bunch of F15s to Taiwan just for training would be a pretty big pain to organize. Unless you permanently station them there, in which case you've kind of reverted to the original expense issue.

Why would they need to fly to Taiwan? There are Taiwanese pilots stationed in the U.S. (Arizona I think) who could DACT against any U.S. fighters.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
Why would they need to fly to Taiwan? There are Taiwanese pilots stationed in the U.S. (Arizona I think) who could DACT against any U.S. fighters.

That's right. The Luke Airforce Base training project (or whatever it's officially called). Trump renewed it in 2019, and given the last authorisation was by Obama in 2011 it would suggest each lasts 8+ years.
 

crash8pilot

Junior Member
Registered Member
ROC does not have F15s but the US and Japan do.
They could easily come to some arrangement for training.
The operational cost per hour of the F-15 is pretty eye watering (~USD23000 per flight hour) - who's going to foot that bill, Japan or Taiwan? Also the ROC's presence at Luke AFB in Arizona is primarily for conversion training for new pilots and upgrade training for instructor pilots. Luke doesn't have F-15s as well, its almost exclusively a Viper training base (they're replacing the Vipers at Luke, making it an F-35 Formal Training Unit base for new pilots).

The modern day threat is BVR, especially with AWACs and radar coverage. If a ROC Viper ever ends up in the visual merge with a PLA fighter, well then shit has really hit the fan (either the pilot has lost situational awareness, or the Taiwan Strait is packed with planes Battle of Britain style). DACT nowadays is more on training BVR tactics - things like practicing intercepts, picking up bogies on radar and communicating targets verbally or via datalink, locking onto said target and slinging off AMRAAMs, defending Fox-3 missiles with maneuvers and popping chaff... That's why the type of aircraft doesn't really matter, and it also helps that the F-5 is cheap to operate (~USD2000 per flight hour). The ROC could send 10 F-5s in place of a single F-15 with that type of money - think about the quality of training that could provide, putting up a four-ship Viper formation against an overwhelming OPFOR. It's literally why the USAF still has F-22s training against T-38 aggressor aircraft, and why companies like Draken which operate a large fleet of "obsolete" A-4s and L-39s are being given massive contracts by the DoD to provide red air at Red Flag, as well as TOPGUN and Weapons School courses.

I'm not saying WVR dogfighting skills are unimportant, I'm just saying they're less likely to happen, especially with the rising capabilities of AESA radars and BVR missiles. In this day and age, all 4+gen fighters are advanced pretty equal in capabilities. In essence WVR BFM engagements come down to the skill (and a bit of luck) of the pilot, and more importantly how he/she leverages the limits and advantages of his/her weapon system to execute their game plan against the opponent. The F-16 is a rate-fighter (turns the quickest), so a Viper pilot would be looking to force a two-circle fight to out-rate his/her opponent, out-turning the enemy and getting them in a defensive position. However the Viper might struggle if forced into a one-circle fight where whoever has the smallest turning radius wins, because it doesn't do well flying low speed and high AoA to pull off tight turns that a Hornet or Flanker can to get their nose quicker on target. In that sense while DACT could help a ROC pilot get used to the "picture", you don't necessarily need to train BFM WVR engagements consistently with a fighter of greater/equal ability for a ROC pilot to become a better dogfighter. A couple BFM practice sets against a cutting edge dissimilar OPFOR weapons system would make for great experience and a fantastic opportunity to gather "lessons learned"... but you don't need that for a pilot to learn and put into practice what the best speeds/AoA/altitude/turn rate of the Viper to come out on top in a BFM engagement.
 
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